C.A.F.E. What "Exactly" is it?

[90503]

It may seem straightforward enough, but I can't help but notice how this is misunderstood...I don't fully understand it...Corporate Average Fuel Economy...

...What is the formula Car-Makers must adhere to?...Based on sales? Based on what is offered?...An average of all cars, trucks, suv's combined?...Higway mileage? Street Mileage?....

...What is it now?...What will it be?....Everyone seems to have a simple answer, but it seems to me it's not that simple...dunno?

Please don't make this political....No-one likes it (whatever it is)....Let's just go with it as is, not try to make it non-existent, or wish it never happened...just objective, factual, how is it figured...

Seems like CAFE is always some big mystery, problematic, disastrous monster that rules the day...Whether you like it or not, I would just like an explanation to what it all entails, and what it holds for the future that we now know it will be...

...This may be Mission Impossible, but I thought I'd give it a try here as it seems to come up more often than not while discussing the 6thGen...

If this thread turns to crap, mods please just close it or delete it...

Thanks, Tom


Ressurrected from over five years ago...lol....So what else is new?...lol

[camaro-dreamer]

The government has prepared a report summarizing CAFE for you. http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rul...al_Rule_FR.pdf

A couple of things are important. First, CAFE uses a harmonic mean. This means that vehicles which produce more CO2 count very heavily against manufacturers. However, CAFE also takes into account the footprint of vehicles. A formula for vehicle footprint is found in the above link.

Small vehicles with gas guzzling engines are very bad for manufacturers. Bigger vehicles, by virtue of their larger footprint, count less. To a certain extent, manufacturers can play the system to produce larger footprint cars and get a more lenient fuel economy standard. At the same time, these larger vehicles weigh more thus reducing fuel economy. There must be a fine balancing act.

Mathematically, there is a formula for determination of a fuel economy target in a given year. The formula can be found in the link I posted above. The parameters in the equation are given a physical interpretation. Their selection seems arbitrary though.

[mikeyg36]

It's bull$hit. That's what it is.

[sspolo]

Back when the SOPA and all that internet censorship was bigger many companies got together to stand up against SOPA and succeeded (eventually something else will probably come, but at least they earned more time) . I wonder if some car companies can get together and do the same?
I feel as if American car companies; GM, Ford and Chrysler are going to be affected the most since many of their cars need big engines. They should stand up and fight.

[derklug]

CAFE is the instrument of government control over the auto industry. If the free market was allowed to work, cars would get the fuel economy, safety, and size that people desire. By mandating fuel economy and minimum safety requirements, the government can dictate the minimum price of a car. Once the minimum is set, they can then price high performance cars out of the price range of the average consumer. When everything is said and done, there will be two cars, a Mercedes Benz Uberauto, and a TATA.

[cam62]

Originally Posted by derklug

. When everything is said and done, there will be two cars, a Mercedes Benz Uberauto, and a TATA.

The TATA NANO is coming. Might get one. I can get an employee discount! ..............................
.................................................. .......................................
.................................................. .......................................

or not.

[james347]

P.I.T.A.

[Austin45]

Originally Posted by sspolo

Back when the SOPA and all that internet censorship was bigger many companies got together to stand up against SOPA and succeeded (eventually something else will probably come, but at least they earned more time) . I wonder if some car companies can get together and do the same?
I feel as if American car companies; GM, Ford and Chrysler are going to be affected the most since many of their cars need big engines. They should stand up and fight.

...but omg if they did that the car companies would be evil and that would automatically mean they hate the environment and they hate the earth and global warming!!!!!!

I agree, I wish they could stand up without being labeled as evil.

[ernie scar]

A simple explanation for CAFE also the longevity of the V8.

Basically automakers are forced to produce a certain number of fuel efficient vehicles. The more of these vehicles (fuel efficient) that are produced, allows the automaker to produce more vehicles we like and want (cars and trucks with big gas guzzling V8’s). I think by 2016 the government has mandated that vehicles are going to have to get so many miles per gallon (US) or kilometers per Liter (CAN). When you see rumors of the Camaro coming out with a 4 cylinder engine (I hope this doesn’t happen) this is an example of CAFE regulations. If this happens they may have a 4 bagger turbo that makes 300HP that they will put into the Camaro. This allows GM to still make the car but get the fuel economy that the government wants.

I think some of the automakers are getting around this by adding 4 and 6 cylinder engines with turbos in their vehicle line up, for example, Ford eco-boost.

To be honest I don’t find the gas savings to be that great with this technology added to the vehicles. My wife has a Ford escape with the 2L eco-boost engine and it actually drinks the gas pretty good. Also who knows what the longevity of these engines are and if they break down how much is it going to cost you to fix?

I have also changed my opinion on the V8 as well. I don’t think this engine is going anywhere anytime soon, I can see though that it will be limited to certain vehicles. And if you want it as an option it’s going to cost a good chunk of coin to get it.

At least we are able to still get muscle cars with V8’s in them, 10 to 20 years who know if they will still be around. Could you imagine a ZL1,GT500, or SRT8 with a 4 banger turbo, someone shoot me now.

Sorry for going sideways on this post.

[90503]

Originally Posted by camaro-dreamer

The government has prepared a report summarizing CAFE for you. http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rul...al_Rule_FR.pdf

A couple of things are important. First, CAFE uses a harmonic mean. This means that vehicles which produce more CO2 count very heavily against manufacturers. However, CAFE also takes into account the footprint of vehicles. A formula for vehicle footprint is found in the above link.

Small vehicles with gas guzzling engines are very bad for manufacturers. Bigger vehicles, by virtue of their larger footprint, count less. To a certain extent, manufacturers can play the system to produce larger footprint cars and get a more lenient fuel economy standard. At the same time, these larger vehicles weigh more thus reducing fuel economy. There must be a fine balancing act.

Mathematically, there is a formula for determination of a fuel economy target in a given year. The formula can be found in the link I posted above. The parameters in the equation are given a physical interpretation. Their selection seems arbitrary though.

Jesus Blown Chrysler!!...lol...

Thanks for the informative reply...I guess part of my question was answered...That is, there is no "short version" to what CAFE is!...lol

[Mr. Wyndham]

I'm moving this thread to the general auto section...might get some more "general auto" (and therefore valuable) replies in there.

[Mr. Wyndham]

.....whoops.....

I'll get this moved back asap.

[Risky guy]

Originally Posted by ernie scar

A simple explanation for CAFE also the longevity of the V8.

Basically automakers are forced to produce a certain number of fuel efficient vehicles. The more of these vehicles (fuel efficient) that are produced, allows the automaker to produce more vehicles we like and want (cars and trucks with big gas guzzling V8’s). I think by 2016 the government has mandated that vehicles are going to have to get so many miles per gallon (US) or kilometers per Liter (CAN). When you see rumors of the Camaro coming out with a 4 cylinder engine (I hope this doesn’t happen) this is an example of CAFE regulations. If this happens they may have a 4 bagger turbo that makes 300HP that they will put into the Camaro. This allows GM to still make the car but get the fuel economy that the government wants.

I think some of the automakers are getting around this by adding 4 and 6 cylinder engines with turbos in their vehicle line up, for example, Ford eco-boost.

To be honest I don’t find the gas savings to be that great with this technology added to the vehicles. My wife has a Ford escape with the 2L eco-boost engine and it actually drinks the gas pretty good. Also who knows what the longevity of these engines are and if they break down how much is it going to cost you to fix?

I have also changed my opinion on the V8 as well. I don’t think this engine is going anywhere anytime soon, I can see though that it will be limited to certain vehicles. And if you want it as an option it’s going to cost a good chunk of coin to get it.

At least we are able to still get muscle cars with V8’s in them, 10 to 20 years who know if they will still be around. Could you imagine a ZL1,GT500, or SRT8 with a 4 banger turbo, someone shoot me now.

Sorry for going sideways on this post.

This isn't a camaro but, it is pretty damn quick.
Just to give you an idea.
This what a real 4 banger does.

http://youtu.be/Xq4xQhL_s8w

[2010-1SS-IBM]

CAFE: It's the excuse car manufacturers use to try to convince you 4 cylinder cars are "performance cars", and 8 cylinder cars are "exotic cars".