Rear main seal blew out - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

UNRIVALED SS · 03-27-2017, 01:28 PM

I'm curious. How many engineers does Elite Engineering have working on design for your stuff?
Since we are getting a class on "ring flutter" and "blow by".
You can go ahead and explain how having vacuum on the back side of a piston's rings doesn't increase blowby and prevent "ring flutter". I guess having pressure on the back side of piston rings and pressure used to evacuate exhaust on the front side could never equal out.
Since you have the detailed data available. How many millimeters mercury of vacuum does you system produce for a 427 inch engine running 7000 RPM under 15 psi of manifold pressure running typical suggested ring end gaps for 2618 alloy Pistons? That should get us stared.

All these products work as designed. Which design meets the requirements for any particular application is an entirely different story. Not knowing so many variables it is very difficult to know the needs for a particular application. 22 cents worth. Had to get it out of my system after the condescending lecture.

UNRIVALED SS · 03-27-2017, 01:29 PM

These AGP guys know their stuff.

jeff657756 · 03-27-2017, 03:31 PM

Kopterman · 03-27-2017, 06:37 PM

All I ever see is blown out rear seals on cars with superchargers/turbos. I'm afraid of getting a catch can anywhere near my car!! LoL

stevieturbo · 03-27-2017, 06:53 PM

The problem is people buy all sorts of shite, often then plumb them wrong etc etc etc

Whilst yes a full on PCV, Evac, whatever is no doubt a better solution. It's hard to beat the simplicity of venting to atmosphere with no silly valves and complicated pipe routes for people to screw up.

Obviously all methods still require suitable filtered catch cans regardless though.

Any any talk of such setups reducing engine life, are largely bullshit.

hou30guy · 03-28-2017, 06:42 AM

I add 3/8 tubes to go down sides of motor from valve covers and might mouse breather oil cap and vent it all, no problem at all no vapor smells nor engine bay cocered in oil, most to all diesel trucks vent to atmosphere for years and hasnt had a problem. This isnt no need for vacuum on the crankcase at idle unless u wanna suck oil and vapors back thru ur motor, but hey im just a auto/diesel technician so what do i know

HOJO · 03-28-2017, 10:37 AM

I remember when guys used to to run hoses off their valve covers to their headers where they connected to a tube welded in just before the collector.

stevieturbo · 03-28-2017, 12:03 PM

Obviously if you can achieve crankcase evac along with proper oil/air separation so it either does not get pulled out the exhaust or into the intake, it is a good thing

All too often these can setups that claim to do it either fail, or the user just cannot figure out how to connect them, and then it all goes wrong.

Venting the breathers ( including additional outlets if required ) into a decent simple vented catch can...is pretty much idiot proof and tried and tested over decades. And usually cheap

LSX Camaro · 03-30-2017, 11:53 PM

I cannot believe the ignorance in this thread. Oh wait, it Camaro5.

SKI-LAXN · 04-01-2017, 04:49 PM

Ok I have got rearmain back in and now it will start and die then just crank. It did this before when map sensor was bad have another coming (ZL1). I am now $700 into catch cans and feel I have the same issue. I am running the ex2ultra can. Should I adjust my boost controller for less boost and will what I have work? This car is making me crazy. Learning a lot about turbos.

SKI-LAXN · 04-01-2017, 05:07 PM

Why is it that venting to atmosphere worked? I have looked at mm's can and only see that he plugs off all pcv and only uses the cap for venting to can. Where elite uses the can for all pcv and oil fill cap. Is it the size of the venting hose? Mine is setup just like elite says too.

LSX Camaro · 04-01-2017, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKI-LAXN

Why is it that venting to atmosphere worked? I have looked at mm's can and only see that he plugs off all pcv and only uses the cap for venting to can. Where elite uses the can for all pcv and oil fill cap. Is it the size of the venting hose? Mine is setup just like elite says too.

What size hose are you using? Do you have the proper check valves in place? If so what size?

SKI-LAXN · 04-02-2017, 10:25 AM

3/8 hose from rear of drivers side valve cover tee to 3/8 from valley cover to can. 3/8 from can to intake with check valve so no pressure can flow to can. 1/2 hose from oil breather to air cleaner. And 3/8 from can to turbo housing with check valve so can't go from housing to can.

Elite Engineering · 04-02-2017, 10:46 AM

Can you email our tech support team direct with pictures?

Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

The cleanside would vent the same as any other vent if something was wrong with piston/ring/cylinder sealing, just not to the atmosphere. 1/2" line is -8 and more than enough so something has to be wrong somewhere. Have hundreds of these in use and the only time you would not have suction pulled with the setup as shown is if you have a broken ring or ringland allowing excessive blow-by like this example:

This was what was found with a similar case, NOT the system used. Detonation most likely the cause during tuning. But contact our tech support team and we can instruct you on all to test and how to test and also verify all is functioning correctly.

In this illustration, you can see how the cleanside is a direct path to the main air filter so there is no restriction in the event pressure does become present:

Detonation only needs a few seconds to break ring lands like shown, and that there is no cure for aside from tear down and replace/repair.

03-27-2017, 03:31 PM	#17
jeff657756 Drives: 2014 SS 1LE Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: United States Posts: 660	__________________ https://instagram.com/jp_1le/

03-30-2017, 11:53 PM	#23
LSX Camaro Master ASE, GM, LSX Tech. Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,034	I cannot believe the ignorance in this thread. Oh wait, it Camaro5. __________________ 2010 2SSRS A6, Custom Pat G. Cam, WCCH Cylinder Heads, Kooks Headers/Exhaust, BTR Valvetrain, Fluidampr 25% UDP, All Engine ARP bolts, Flex-a-lite radiator/Trans cooler, Yank converter, PFADT Suspension, ADM Race Intake/Scoop, Torq tow hook, CFD auto shifter, Dynojet AFR gauge, Aeroforce scan gauge, Brake Performance rotors/pads Prothane bushings, ZL1 wheels, spoiler, Z/28 wickerbill, 1LE Aero/Suspension Package, Anderson Composites COPO Carbon Fiber Hood, LED lighting, Elite Catch Can, Improved Racing oil pan baffle, crank scraper, windage tray 480 RWHP 452 RWTQ + Nitrous Express 150 Shot

03-27-2017, 01:28 PM	#15
UNRIVALED SS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: El Paso Posts: 704 View My Garage	I'm curious. How many engineers does Elite Engineering have working on design for your stuff? Since we are getting a class on "ring flutter" and "blow by". You can go ahead and explain how having vacuum on the back side of a piston's rings doesn't increase blowby and prevent "ring flutter". I guess having pressure on the back side of piston rings and pressure used to evacuate exhaust on the front side could never equal out. Since you have the detailed data available. How many millimeters mercury of vacuum does you system produce for a 427 inch engine running 7000 RPM under 15 psi of manifold pressure running typical suggested ring end gaps for 2618 alloy Pistons? That should get us stared. All these products work as designed. Which design meets the requirements for any particular application is an entirely different story. Not knowing so many variables it is very difficult to know the needs for a particular application. 22 cents worth. Had to get it out of my system after the condescending lecture.

03-27-2017, 01:29 PM	#16
UNRIVALED SS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: El Paso Posts: 704 View My Garage	These AGP guys know their stuff.

03-27-2017, 06:37 PM	#18
Kopterman Drives: 2014 Bright Yellow 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: NH Posts: 794 View My Garage	All I ever see is blown out rear seals on cars with superchargers/turbos. I'm afraid of getting a catch can anywhere near my car!! LoL

03-27-2017, 06:53 PM	#19
stevieturbo Drives: it changes Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1,126	The problem is people buy all sorts of shite, often then plumb them wrong etc etc etc Whilst yes a full on PCV, Evac, whatever is no doubt a better solution. It's hard to beat the simplicity of venting to atmosphere with no silly valves and complicated pipe routes for people to screw up. Obviously all methods still require suitable filtered catch cans regardless though. Any any talk of such setups reducing engine life, are largely bullshit.

03-28-2017, 06:42 AM	#20
hou30guy Drives: 2011 convertible 2ss/rs Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Houston Posts: 971	I add 3/8 tubes to go down sides of motor from valve covers and might mouse breather oil cap and vent it all, no problem at all no vapor smells nor engine bay cocered in oil, most to all diesel trucks vent to atmosphere for years and hasnt had a problem. This isnt no need for vacuum on the crankcase at idle unless u wanna suck oil and vapors back thru ur motor, but hey im just a auto/diesel technician so what do i know

03-28-2017, 10:37 AM	#21
HOJO Drives: 2014 Camaro SS/RS 1LE 1967 Camaro Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 873	I remember when guys used to to run hoses off their valve covers to their headers where they connected to a tube welded in just before the collector.

03-28-2017, 12:03 PM	#22
stevieturbo Drives: it changes Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1,126	Obviously if you can achieve crankcase evac along with proper oil/air separation so it either does not get pulled out the exhaust or into the intake, it is a good thing All too often these can setups that claim to do it either fail, or the user just cannot figure out how to connect them, and then it all goes wrong. Venting the breathers ( including additional outlets if required ) into a decent simple vented catch can...is pretty much idiot proof and tried and tested over decades. And usually cheap

04-01-2017, 04:49 PM	#24
SKI-LAXN Drives: 2010 SS Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: colorado Posts: 19	Ok I have got rearmain back in and now it will start and die then just crank. It did this before when map sensor was bad have another coming (ZL1). I am now $700 into catch cans and feel I have the same issue. I am running the ex2ultra can. Should I adjust my boost controller for less boost and will what I have work? This car is making me crazy. Learning a lot about turbos.

04-01-2017, 05:07 PM	#25
SKI-LAXN Drives: 2010 SS Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: colorado Posts: 19	Why is it that venting to atmosphere worked? I have looked at mm's can and only see that he plugs off all pcv and only uses the cap for venting to can. Where elite uses the can for all pcv and oil fill cap. Is it the size of the venting hose? Mine is setup just like elite says too.

04-02-2017, 10:25 AM	#27
SKI-LAXN Drives: 2010 SS Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: colorado Posts: 19	3/8 hose from rear of drivers side valve cover tee to 3/8 from valley cover to can. 3/8 from can to intake with check valve so no pressure can flow to can. 1/2 hose from oil breather to air cleaner. And 3/8 from can to turbo housing with check valve so can't go from housing to can.

04-02-2017, 10:46 AM	#28
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,382	Can you email our tech support team direct with pictures? Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com The cleanside would vent the same as any other vent if something was wrong with piston/ring/cylinder sealing, just not to the atmosphere. 1/2" line is -8 and more than enough so something has to be wrong somewhere. Have hundreds of these in use and the only time you would not have suction pulled with the setup as shown is if you have a broken ring or ringland allowing excessive blow-by like this example: This was what was found with a similar case, NOT the system used. Detonation most likely the cause during tuning. But contact our tech support team and we can instruct you on all to test and how to test and also verify all is functioning correctly. In this illustration, you can see how the cleanside is a direct path to the main air filter so there is no restriction in the event pressure does become present: Detonation only needs a few seconds to break ring lands like shown, and that there is no cure for aside from tear down and replace/repair.