2019 Camaro

[snarky]

They not only need a complete redesign but a new ad campaign and image reboot.
Whenever I hear that nerd Vin Diesel talking over the white Challenger drifting sideways in a cloud of smoke I stare at it everytime with .

[FH212]

Originally Posted by snarky

They not only need a complete redesign but a new ad campaign and image reboot.
Whenever I hear that nerd Vin Diesel talking over the white Challenger drifting sideways in a cloud of smoke I stare at it everytime with .

I do too. Dodge's advertising dept kicks ass...I have to admit it got to me. Between the ads and watching Richard Rawlings constantly featuring Hellcat Challengers and Chargers in his show, I guess there advertising worked because I bought a 2018 Charger R/T Blacktop lol

[BULLITT65]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

The complaint on the 6th gen is that it wasn't enough of a departure from the 5th gen (14-15 in particular). They look very very similar. I can pick out either gen going down the road from a distance. The refresh needs a little paint and that 'Charger' bumper is gone. I'm not a fan of it per say but I'm sure it will grow on me. The Kia references isn't accurate.



Ugh with the retro. There is more than one design discipline for this segment and retro doesn't equate to increased sales.



They offer the cheapest entry into a V8 pony car of the bunch, but it's also the slowest and poorest performer. It's not what I'd call an enthusiasts car. It's not like they've been outselling the other 2 pony cars until recently either.



This has been discussed at length. Millennials generally have a different mindset entirely, and far FAR less likely to be in this market. Most of the millenials I know are all over ride-share services, Ev's, etc., and use their car (if they have one) seldom. Most of them that DO have cars are Subi, Honda, etc etc. Vehicles are utilitarian. They're generally not muscle/pony car enthusiasts by any stretch of the imagination. We're a dying breed.



Comparing the FWD Probe debacle in this context isn't apples to apples.

While I appreciate the counter point(s), I think you are off track with a few things.

#1) the Kia reference is spot on if you look at the front end of that Kia above.
1.5) My 10 year old son has said he thinks the 6th gen blend in to much, and asked me why they designed it like that...
2) Retro doesn't equate into increased sales????
Are you kidding me? Do you think they could have just thrown out any design in 2009 and everyone would have just ate it up?
IT WAS THE RETRO DESIGN that drove the sales!
Could it have been better? YES. lighter weight materials, get rid of the mail slot, a lower belt line with a bigger green house, and functional rear quarter windows (a true 2 door hardtop). Hopefully the 2021 7th gen incorporates these ideas, and they don't just copy the dodge front end, and the import styling cues...
3) The dodge Challenger is a huge success story! whether you like them or not, they sell. Why is that? They never abandoned the muscle car look and they know their customer base are muscle car fanatics. I bet they have had more Camaro owners cross over than the other way around.
4)Millenials- Whether you were born in 2000 or prior the first gen design is a favorite. I just got my license when the 4th gen came out, the 3rd gens were cool, but the 1st gen has always represented the majority of what people would choose if given the chance. The only thing that is going to get the 5th gen owners off thier cars, is developing a better retro design IMO. That would then lead to a major increase in sales, and maybe you would get some challenger owners back.
So instead if saying we are a "dying breed", I would say there are plenty of young bucks ready to take our place, if Chevrolet can deliver on developing a good looking Camaro.
If not they will get a mustang, or challenger.

[Angrybird 12]

LOL

[jshaf]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

LOL

that hideous bow tie in the middle of the black nose. what the hell were they thinking???? wish they would do away with all the thick black bar thing in all the models Nose areas in the chevy line up, looks awkward! clunky for lack of a better term. might be the best performing car out there but people won't buy it for 1) it's too expensive and 2) the styling is getting messed up with all these ugly styling cues they are grafting over what is left of the 5th gen design language. UGH!

[49North1LE]

Even Hawaii 5.0 hasn't made the switch (which I had expected) by staying with the Gen5 car in 2018! Lovin it, cause the Gen6 is just messed from a design perspective having chased the Euro/whatever global look for broader appeal, how's that working out? The 2019 nose is down right fugly. C'mon man no wait that's C'mon GM, holy crap you design team guys are making it tough on the bean counters who project sales. Wouldn't bother me to loose the Camaro again. Advantage the other Detroit manufactures who get it (even with Ford screwing up the Mustang front end for this year).

[hesster]

I understand that Air Flow is critical for muscle car vehicles like the Vette and Camaro's, hence the large as possible and functional grilles. But the 2019 just ain't pretty, or say's WOW.
Now here is a classic front Fascia/Grille on my '73 that I built a few years ago:

[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

The complaint on the 6th gen is that it wasn't enough of a departure from the 5th gen (14-15 in particular). They look very very similar. I can pick out either gen going down the road from a distance. il .


This has been discussed at length. Millennials generally have a different mindset entirely, and far FAR less likely to be in this market. Most of the millenials I know are all over ride-share services, Ev's, etc., and use their car (if they have one) seldom. Most of them that DO have cars are Subi, Honda, etc etc. Vehicles are utilitarian. They're generally not muscle/pony car enthusiasts by any stretch of the imagination. We're a dying breed.
.

While enthusiasts can spot a Gen 5 vs 6, most of the buying public can’t.

I’m an older millennial and am not in the traditional mold they are known for. I find that there is a bigger shift toward what you refer to with those born in the 90’s rather than the 80’s.

I also that retro styling for the most part is dead. They need a new direction, retro was the thing in the mid-2000’s when Gen 5 was being designed

PT Cruiser, HHR, Thunderbird, SSR, FJ Cruiser, even Mustang dropped Retro.

[Stormcloak]

Originally Posted by jshaf

that hideous bow tie in the middle of the black nose. what the hell were they thinking???? wish they would do away with all the thick black bar thing in all the models Nose areas in the chevy line up, looks awkward! clunky for lack of a better term. might be the best performing car out there but people won't buy it for 1) it's too expensive and 2) the styling is getting messed up with all these ugly styling cues they are grafting over what is left of the 5th gen design language. UGH!

Interestingly enough, I watched a vid this morning claiming that the badge is actually a flowtie. If that's the case, debadging to improve the front slightly is less of an option.

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by BULLITT65

While I appreciate the counter point(s), I think you are off track with a few things.

#1) the Kia reference is spot on if you look at the front end of that Kia above.

Yes, here's another picture of a 5 yr old Kia Forte compared to a 5th gen ZL1. If you're thinking this is a Camaro, or looks like a Camaro of any year, you're also the type that would call a Camaro a Mustang and your opinion has no relevance in this context.

1.5) My 10 year old son has said he thinks the 6th gen blend in to much, and asked me why they designed it like that...

I'm 47 and I disagree. My wife is 44, she can pick them out of traffic quicker than I can and she loves the design from head to toe. We even now?

2) Retro doesn't equate into increased sales????
Are you kidding me? Do you think they could have just thrown out any design in 2009 and everyone would have just ate it up?
IT WAS THE RETRO DESIGN that drove the sales!
Could it have been better? YES. lighter weight materials, get rid of the mail slot, a lower belt line with a bigger green house, and functional rear quarter windows (a true 2 door hardtop). Hopefully the 2021 7th gen incorporates these ideas, and they don't just copy the dodge front end, and the import styling cues...

With a 7 year hiatus, yes. You could have come to market with any number of designs and sold cars. I can't fathom why people don't take this into account. Hell, I could go by the same methodology and declare that the Challenger is the most retro of them all and their sales have trailed behind Mustang and Camaro by a significant margin until recently. Hey only took some 13 years of that sure-sell retro styling to catch up eh?

3) The dodge Challenger is a huge success story! whether you like them or not, they sell. Why is that? They never abandoned the muscle car look and they know their customer base are muscle car fanatics. I bet they have had more Camaro owners cross over than the other way around.

It's not a 'huge' success story. It's a story. Again, if the Camaro's sales were as low as Challenger sales were over the years, everyone would be ranting about how the Camaro was going to go extinct again.

4)Millenials- Whether you were born in 2000 or prior the first gen design is a favorite. I just got my license when the 4th gen came out, the 3rd gens were cool, but the 1st gen has always represented the majority of what people would choose if given the chance. The only thing that is going to get the 5th gen owners off thier cars, is developing a better retro design IMO. That would then lead to a major increase in sales, and maybe you would get some challenger owners back.
So instead if saying we are a "dying breed", I would say there are plenty of young bucks ready to take our place, if Chevrolet can deliver on developing a good looking Camaro.
If not they will get a mustang, or challenger.

Again, YOU are a car enthusiast. The vast majority of kids these days are not. I have 5 siblings all younger. I see my youngest siblings friends and my step brother's friends and their friends. I see my kids and their friends. 1, maybe 2 are interested in cars and none of them would buy a pony car of any type. They all want small fuel efficient 4 doors they can pile friends and stuff into. You're not going to capture those sales in this segment unless you start slapping Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro nameplates on Cruzes, Focuses and Darts. Let's not forget that the average new car buyer is in their 50's, much less a new car that's in excess of 30k.

Pony car sales are a minute subset of total sales, and V8 sales are maybe 20-30% of that minute subset at best and those sales are trending down across the board and have been for the last couple decades. You can try and downplay that fact all you want, but that's our reality.

[lbls1]

Goofy and busy on the front and rear fascias, but they are not disasters. I could grow to get used to them. Change is good, however. I encourage Chevy and GM to continually update their designs and not allow them to get stale.

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

While enthusiasts can spot a Gen 5 vs 6, most of the buying public can’t.

I’m an older millennial and am not in the traditional mold they are known for. I find that there is a bigger shift toward what you refer to with those born in the 90’s rather than the 80’s.

I also that retro styling for the most part is dead. They need a new direction, retro was the thing in the mid-2000’s when Gen 5 was being designed

PT Cruiser, HHR, Thunderbird, SSR, FJ Cruiser, even Mustang dropped Retro.

Pretty much what I've been saying yes.

[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

Pretty much what I've been saying yes.

Right, I was agreeing with you

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

Right, I was agreeing with you