[juice3]

Sub'd, but I know I'm trq management limited. WAiting for my C&R stuff to arrive because getting at the TCM is a PITA.\

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by clg82

I believe HHP is charging much much more than the 450.00 you paid.

Read it again, I specified 2017-2019 models, as the OP of this thread has a 2018. You guys who bought T93s (2020-on) are going to need to spend even more to get your car to go correctly, sad to say.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Read it again, I specified 2017-2019 models, as the OP of this thread has a 2018. You guys who bought T93s (2020-on) are going to need to spend even more to get your car to go correctly, sad to say.

My 2021 goes correctly from the factory. If I were to ever install a cam, I could see the need for it then.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

You driving an SS or ZL1? I ask because it seems like there's more gain to be had from the A8 than the A10 until the A10 vehicle is modified with a cam and higher HP applications.

I have an SS. But what I said about the crappy-for-that-much-power short times for having drag tires mounted was referring to A10 ZL1s. Also my point about wrong shift points applies to A10 ZLs as well, as PDR videos that I've seen from ZL1s show me they need some work there too. What I am talking about here is getting the performance out of the car that it should be capable of. I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that TCM tuning is only needed for high hp, example, I went 11.3 in my SS with probably ~420 rwhp using drag radials. I say 'probably' because stock it made 395, I had added a worthless drop in air filter and a worthless v-max ported throttle body, neither did squat for performance, plus flex fuel which does help. Guessing ~25 hp gain from the flex fuel.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

I have an SS. But what I said about the crappy-for-that-much-power short times for having drag tires mounted was referring to A10 ZL1s. Also my point about wrong shift points applies to A10 ZLs as well, as PDR videos that I've seen from ZL1s show me they need some work there too. What I am talking about here is getting the performance out of the car that it should be capable of. I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that TCM tuning is only needed for high hp, example, I went 11.3 in my SS with probably ~420 rwhp using drag radials. I say 'probably' because stock it made 395, I had added a worthless drop in air filter and a worthless v-max ported throttle body, neither did squat for performance, plus flex fuel which does help. Guessing ~25 hp gain from the flex fuel.

You are free to disagree, the shop that built the world's quickest ZL1 at the moment says its unecessary until a cam is installed in an A10 car.

[juice3]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Read it again, I specified 2017-2019 models, as the OP of this thread has a 2018. You guys who bought T93s (2020-on) are going to need to spend even more to get your car to go correctly, sad to say.

This is wrong. I have a 2019 with TCM locked and needed this.


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[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by juice3

This is wrong. I have a 2019 with TCM locked and needed this.


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What’s the build date of your 2019? I have not come across one single 2019 that had the new tcm in it.

[KingLT1]

I have heard the 2019 ZLE A10 have T93's but not the regular ZL1's until 2020.

[RabbitZL1]

Then “tcm tune” actually happens in the pcm. Lots of misinformation out there. Shift speed/firmness is all in the virtual tq tables. Shift points are tcm.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by juice3

This is wrong. I have a 2019 with TCM locked and needed this.

Wait, you are saying that your 2019 ZL1 has a T93? Is that only a 1LE version problem? Had not heard about that, stinks. Honestly the mfg have been making it harder for enthusiasts, look at how Hellcat guys have needed to send their pcm in before they can tune it for years, we've needed to send our tcms in starting with 2017 models, the C8 is not even tunable, stinks.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by RabbitZL1

Then “tcm tune” actually happens in the pcm. Lots of misinformation out there. Shift speed/firmness is all in the virtual tq tables. Shift points are tcm.

This is the kind of information I'm interested in. I'm not completely sure this is completely correct. The only evidence I have of this is another car I know about that seems to have a lot of TMA being pulled-out in lower RPMs. WB and STFT/LTFTs indicate good VVE/MAF in these questionable areas, so that leaves the TCM, so far as we can tell. I'm not suggesting it can't be more - that's just our understanding of the specific vehicles I'm seeing being tuned. Because we have high confidence in the VVE/MAF, we think something in the car's tune is just not quite there yet. The TQ curve looks similar to the power curve because it peaks around peak HP. That's going by the HPTuners logs, so I know there could be some variability there, and we don't have a chassis dyno for the car, so we admit there's no absolute in our theories, but the car was seriously pulling timing (not spark retard - TMA) until our VTT was a lot lower than stock. It pulls like a freight train from a roll, but the data doesn't really look right. Again - we're not experts at all, but we have no spark or throttle closure right now, but had to pull so much TQ from the VTT tables it SEEMS like something's limiting, and the only thing left is that damn T93...

If you have more information you're willing to share, we're all ears to learn

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by radz28

This is the kind of information I'm interested in. I'm not completely sure this is completely correct. The only evidence I have of this is another car I know about that seems to have a lot of TMA being pulled-out in lower RPMs. WB and STFT/LTFTs indicate good VVE/MAF in these questionable areas, so that leaves the TCM, so far as we can tell. I'm not suggesting it can't be more - that's just our understanding of the specific vehicles I'm seeing being tuned. Because we have high confidence in the VVE/MAF, we think something in the car's tune is just not quite there yet. The TQ curve looks similar to the power curve because it peaks around peak HP. That's going by the HPTuners logs, so I know there could be some variability there, and we don't have a chassis dyno for the car, so we admit there's no absolute in our theories, but the car was seriously pulling timing (not spark retard - TMA) until our VTT was a lot lower than stock. It pulls like a freight train from a roll, but the data doesn't really look right. Again - we're not experts at all, but we have no spark or throttle closure right now, but had to pull so much TQ from the VTT tables it SEEMS like something's limiting, and the only thing left is that damn T93...

If you have more information you're willing to share, we're all ears to learn

Its my understanding that they work together. I don't think you can adjust the transmission parameters in the ECM, I think the TCM references the ECM torque tables though.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by RabbitZL1

Then “tcm tune” actually happens in the pcm. Lots of misinformation out there. Shift speed/firmness is all in the virtual tq tables. Shift points are tcm.

Yes the virtual torque table plays a big role in how the trans shifts but shift speed/firmness/inertia/scheduling/torque reduction/torque management all are addressed in the TCM. FYI there is no PCM in these cars.

You can alter the minimum spark table so the ECM does not pull as much timing on the shifts. And when you make more power then stock you need to let the ECM know by adding more torque value in the VT tables so the trans will shift right but the TCM still needs addressed regardless in order to get the throttle open all the way in first gear. Also needs addressed so some Torque management can be reduced. The only way to get full torque shifts is through the TCM. The only way to get immediate shift torque recovery is through the TCM. The factory tune ramps it back in.

Moral of the story there is a lot more to the TCM tune then shift points.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Yes the virtual torque table plays a big role in how the trans shifts but shift speed/firmness/inertia/scheduling/torque reduction/torque management all are addressed in the TCM. FYI there is no PCM in these cars.

You can alter the minimum spark table so the ECM does not pull as much timing on the shifts. And when you make more power then stock you need to let the ECM know by adding more torque value in the VT tables so the trans will shift right but the TCM still needs addressed regardless in order to get the throttle open all the way in first gear. Also needs addressed so some Torque management can be reduced. The only way to get full torque shifts is through the TCM. The only way to get immediate shift torque recovery is through the TCM. The factory tune ramps it back in.

Moral of the story there is a lot more to the TCM tune then shift points.

That was my understanding as well.