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Old 12-05-2015, 10:57 PM   #15
Stingray
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Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS View Post
I was at the Sebring event as well, who came with you on your drive? Lots of cool guys, I had a great time.

As a current Mustang owner (full drag set up '11 GT now) and a former '12 Boss 302 and '07 and '13 GT500 owner. Also as a current Corvette owner (full autoX set up Lingerfelter 402ci '02 Z06), I too can inject my opinion. The GT350 is quite the machine especially in R format. Plus it sounds fantastic and pulls very well. The issue I had with it was it's low to medium rpm performance. If you are just tracking it, and staying up in the rev band, you're good. But, if you plan on doing a lot of street driving the low end power is lacking. The other thing I noticed, which again, doesn't really effect track lapping, but could be a annoyance otherwise, is that it doesn't come out of the hole well. I drove my friends new SS, it had no miles on it, and wasn't my car, which obviously limited me. But I was beyond impressed how well the car performed, even on junky run flats. The 1LE form of this car will easily run with, and very well out perform the GT350 TP. Then, I can only imagine what a even more powerful, track focused ZL1/Z28 will do to a GT350 R. I plan on buying a SS, or if they make it, 1LE, and will do full suspension and coilovers and will see what it does...it may make me sell the Z...will see. Curious, have you driven a new SS?
I was on both the Oct. 13th morning and afternoon sessions hence I got to do the track events twice...

I have put over 500 miles so far on my GT350TP in both urban & highway driving and even below 3k rpm it has good pull. Many times I don't even past 4k or 5k rpm prior to shifting and I have no issues with power/torque bands from a standstill or entering/merging into traffic for example at low-midrange rpm's. One day drives won't define the experience at all... in any case, I can vouch that the GT350 can be a perfectly fine daily driver. No need to go high rpm's. In fact it still sounds really good at low-mid rpm's.

I haven't driven the SS yet but like I said I had a Stingray with the same LT1 engine and obviously I know the capabilities of that motor especially on a C7's lighter weight and very low center of gravity chassis replete with Magride and ediff as well. For sure I can see the 6th gen SS will be a great all-around car... it's already receiving lots of praises credited to the GM parts bin of topnotch goodies. So like I experienced with the C7, I'm also confident the 6th gen performs quite well.

The key aspect is the lighter alpha chassis... that's a fine foundation to start with. Best of luck with your future build.

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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Question...are you talking about the R, or the regular GT350? Big difference. If you are talking R...then while I very much respect your response, but its not a valid response. Even talking the 350TP may not be valid. Sure, straight line might be ok, but clearly this topic is on track performance, and I don't think anyone should be comparing an SS, to a 350TP, and especially an R. (now a possible 6th gen 1LE on the other hand...I feel will put up a good fight with a 350TP)

The comparison should be between a base 350 and an SS. I this case, I think the SS is likely closer to the performance level (track, as straight line the SS is pretty much its equal until perhaps well over 100mph) of a base 350 than a Mustang GTPP. 50K for a base 350. An SS, with all the performance options added, but not a 2SS, will come under that easily, and likely perform very closely. What is your take on this?


ANYWAYS..

As for the so called "comparison" the OP is talking about....it was a NOTHING comparison. All they did was brag up both cars, and nothing else. No stats, no real opinions, and no winner chosen.

I want to see an SS go up against a base 350...lets do it!
I tracked an R and a Track Pack... and I own a TP. Even the Ford Performance engineers as well as two lead HPDE instructors from Chin (one who is a chief instructor), all stated that one of the main benefits of the R is the Cup 2's on lighter wheels. The Cup2's are absolutely fantastic on the track... I run my Z06 on Cup2's and there is a big remarkable difference in grip and much less understeer when compared to the MPSS. They claimed the TP with lighter alloys on Cup2s' will do wonders and turn it close to an R (i guess like a lower case r). Doing so, it won't be far behind the R, IMO... like a GT350-r

If you're strictly comparing and narrowing down to a standard GT350 (hence no Magride as the biggest difference) against the new SS with all the performance goodies, then I will agree that it may be quite close, neck to neck. We'll see if ever any reviews/tests are done...

One thing that still stands out to me though is the braking performance of the GT350 because those stock brakes are so good. Better than a C7 Z51's and maybe even a notch better than the C7 Z06's. Ask anyone who has tracked a GT350 and the common denominator will be how linear it stops and fade free lap after lap... scubbing from high speed you suddenly realize you're braking way too soon. That's how good the brakes are. Remarkable.

I agree Motor Authority's comparison was a dud... but IMO look at it half-glass full. It still revealed how good these cars are... different characters, different target audience even if you think about it. The SS will be produced in much greater numbers while the Shelby GT350 has a smaller target niche per se.

Speaking of a base GT350, here's one to compare... for sale at Machaik's Southway Ford in San Antonio: http://www.windowsticker.forddirect....6P8JZ7G5520183
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Old 12-06-2015, 12:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
I was on both the Oct. 13th morning and afternoon sessions hence I got to do the track events twice...

I have put over 500 miles so far on my GT350TP in both urban & highway driving and even below 3k rpm it has good pull. Many times I don't even past 4k or 5k rpm prior to shifting and I have no issues with power/torque bands from a standstill or entering/merging into traffic for example at low-midrange rpm's. One day drives won't define the experience at all... in any case, I can vouch that the GT350 can be a perfectly fine daily driver. No need to go high rpm's. In fact it still sounds really good at low-mid rpm's.

I haven't driven the SS yet but like I said I had a Stingray with the same LT1 engine and obviously I know the capabilities of that motor especially on a C7's lighter weight and very low center of gravity chassis replete with Magride and ediff as well. For sure I can see the 6th gen SS will be a great all-around car... it's already receiving lots of praises credited to the GM parts bin of topnotch goodies. So like I experienced with the C7, I'm also confident the 6th gen performs quite well.

The key aspect is the lighter alpha chassis... that's a fine foundation to start with. Best of luck with your future build.



I tracked an R and a Track Pack... and I own a TP. Even the Ford Performance engineers as well as two lead HPDE instructors from Chin (one who is a chief instructor), all stated that one of the main benefits of the R is the Cup 2's on lighter wheels. The Cup2's are absolutely fantastic on the track... I run my Z06 on Cup2's and there is a big remarkable difference in grip and much less understeer when compared to the MPSS. They claimed the TP with lighter alloys on Cup2s' will do wonders and turn it close to an R (i guess like a lower case r). Doing so, it won't be far behind the R, IMO... like a GT350-r

If you're strictly comparing and narrowing down to a standard GT350 (hence no Magride as the biggest difference) against the new SS with all the performance goodies, then I will agree that it may be quite close, neck to neck. We'll see if ever any reviews/tests are done...

One thing that still stands out to me though is the braking performance of the GT350 because those stock brakes are so good. Better than a C7 Z51's and maybe even a notch better than the C7 Z06's. Ask anyone who has tracked a GT350 and the common denominator will be how linear it stops and fade free lap after lap... scubbing from high speed you suddenly realize you're braking way too soon. That's how good the brakes are. Remarkable.

I agree Motor Authority's comparison was a dud... but IMO look at it half-glass full. It still revealed how good these cars are... different characters, different target audience even if you think about it. The SS will be produced in much greater numbers while the Shelby GT350 has a smaller target niche per se.

Speaking of a base GT350, here's one to compare... for sale at Machaik's Southway Ford in San Antonio: http://www.windowsticker.forddirect....6P8JZ7G5520183
I have not had time to really look at the details but how is the GT350 braking so well. The Z28 comparison sounded as though the GT braked even better than the Z28...with CC brakes????
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:12 AM   #17
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I have not had time to really look at the details but how is the GT350 braking so well. The Z28 comparison sounded as though the GT braked even better than the Z28...with CC brakes????
To start, unique components well-engineered together results in its amazing braking capabilities.
"After testing numerous brake setups, FP engineers discovered iron rotors provide improved performance and durability (and replacement costs) compared to carbon ceramic. Following several 24-hour endurance sessions, 394-milimeter front rotors (15.5") and 380-milimeter rear rotors (15.0") were chosen to provide stopping power. The two-piece rotors with large aluminum hats are assembled with an offset floating-pin system that allows for improved cooling and ventilation. Combined with atypical radially-mounted fixed-bridge 6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers, these brakes experience virtually no fade in torture testing."
Lots of good details here- http://www.torquenews.com/106/new-fo...d-class-brakes

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Old 12-06-2015, 07:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
To start, unique components well-engineered together results in its amazing braking capabilities.
"After testing numerous brake setups, FP engineers discovered iron rotors provide improved performance and durability (and replacement costs) compared to carbon ceramic. Following several 24-hour endurance sessions, 394-milimeter front rotors (15.5") and 380-milimeter rear rotors (15.0") were chosen to provide stopping power. The two-piece rotors with large aluminum hats are assembled with an offset floating-pin system that allows for improved cooling and ventilation. Combined with atypical radially-mounted fixed-bridge 6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers, these brakes experience virtually no fade in torture testing."
Lots of good details here- http://www.torquenews.com/106/new-fo...d-class-brakes

You sound very knowledgeable. I'm impressed. However, maybe you should hang out on the GT350 forum and when you've driven a 2SS Camaro you can come back and report your opinion. You know what they say about opinions don't you? Obviously neither car is everything to everyone, that's why Ford and Chevrolet have such a great rivalry. Both companies have done a great job with their respective entries. Neither would be the wrong choice. Both are great.
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Old 12-06-2015, 08:21 AM   #19
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You sound very knowledgeable. I'm impressed. However, maybe you should hang out on the GT350 forum and when you've driven a 2SS Camaro you can come back and report your opinion. You know what they say about opinions don't you? Obviously neither car is everything to everyone, that's why Ford and Chevrolet have such a great rivalry. Both companies have done a great job with their respective entries. Neither would be the wrong choice. Both are great.
I actually don't need to "go away" since I am on various forums inc. that one and AFAIC I'm on topic... since after all, this specific thread is a forum comparison between the two and I'm providing some objective points, first hand experience, and concrete knowledge of the power plants I own/owned. Nothing wrong with intelligent/educated and respectful debates, right? Better than incorrect presumptions and suppositions... IMHO.

Personally, there is no need or desire for me to get a 6th gen SS since the C7 is better performance-wise to me. Why should I retract from a Z06 back to a 2SS? If anything, I'm looking forward to seeing the special editions or performance editions GM will reveal (e.g. the next ZL1 or the next Z/28). Those would be my targets to add to the stable...

If you reread my posts in detail, I also stated that the 6th gen is an excellent package... car of the year worthy. I had my 5th gen 2SS 45th Anniv for nearly 3 years which I daily drove plus tracked in stock form and just by seeing/reading about the 6th gen I can already see the huge improvements by GM especially with the all new interior. Loved my 5th gen, so I'm sure with all the improvements the 6th gen will be a better car as we are already hearing... the LT1 is a great motor. Performs very well on & off the track especially with all that torque down low. The only subjective part of the 6th gen I am not a big fan of is the rear fascia and that pedestal spoiler. But I still have as much vested interest in the new 6th gen variations as anyone else out there. Different strokes for different folks....
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:21 AM   #20
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Don't mind that guy. Sensitive people who are actually bothered by anything on a forum should just not partake altogether. There is nothing wrong with talking about cars and how they compare on a car forum.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:26 AM   #21
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I don't think anyone should arguing the Camaro SS is better than the GT350 (and shouldn't) but that it's closer in performance to that then its direct competition the GT Mustang.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:33 AM   #22
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I don't think anyone should arguing the Camaro SS is better than the GT350 (and shouldn't) but that it's closer in performance to that then its direct competition the GT Mustang.

No...not when the SS clearly outperforms the GT! I'm a Camaro guy and I was happy to see that but what GM simply needs to do is figure out how to make the 1le changes so that the ss is right there with the GT350. One of the changes is brakes.

I think a better brake option should have been offered on the "track capable" SS!
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:39 AM   #23
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No...not when the SS clearly outperforms the GT! I'm a Camaro guy and I was happy to see that but what GM simply needs to do is figure out how to make the 1le changes so that the ss is right there with the GT350. One of the changes is brakes.

I think a better brake option should have been offered on the "track capable" SS!
Well put! Put the CTS-V/Z06 brake components & system on the higher performance edition 6th gen and the playing field is level vis-a-vis in terms of stopping capabilities. Those OEM brakes are incredible for street & track use... swap-out the stock Ferodos to some track-spec brake pad compounds (li.e. Carbotechs, Hawks, etc.) and watch your torso have seatbelt welts due to scrubbing/stopping from 150+mph prior to a decreasing radii turn... been there, done that. C'mon GM, bring it on!
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:42 AM   #24
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But aren't those carbon ceramics? I want to see the same gt350 set on the SS. They will last longer and not make me want to cry when I blow thru a set. Lol
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:01 AM   #25
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But aren't those carbon ceramics? I want to see the same gt350 set on the SS. They will last longer and not make me want to cry when I blow thru a set. Lol
No you're thinking of the Z07's CCB package. I meant the standard Z06 ones..... like mine below (pardon my brake bleeding setup). Slap these badboys on the next 6th gen hi-po edition model and it'll definitely compete!

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Old 12-07-2015, 09:06 AM   #26
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I'm a Camaro guy through and through, but I do appreciate Stingray's unbiased review of the vehicles. I will always drive a Camaro, but I do respect what Ford has done with the Mustang.
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:29 PM   #27
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I am just shocked to see the 6th Gen SS nip at the heals and equal the GT350 at all. Ford set out to trump the 2015 Z/28. But they should have aimed slightly higher. They knew the 6th Gen was coming and new HiPo cars as well.

My only issue with GT350 is no one is home in low RPM range. The complaint is apparent and everyone who has seriously driven one echos the same statement. But the car look stellar and sounds great.

I do not see the GT350R holding any track records for long. Remember the Z/28 was a track beast and kudos to Ford for crafting a well balanced car to take it down. But the GM team has their trump cards incoming. It's a good time to love these cars
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:56 PM   #28
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...this specific thread is a forum comparison between the two and I'm providing some objective points, first hand experience, and concrete knowledge of the power plants I own/owned. Nothing wrong with intelligent/educated and respectful debates, right? Better than incorrect presumptions and suppositions... IMHO.
Well said.
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