Wiggle test

[FASTFATBOY]

Originally Posted by joelster

He's 100% wrong on the value. Not sure how 5th gen ZL1's hold their value but Z/28's fall. I paid $45k for mine. I'm certain I could get $55k for it. There's 20 or so on cargurus.com right now ranging from 50-75+. I agree that most guys bought them as collector cars, but not me. I drive the shit out of mine. 7 championships, and roughly 50 class wins out of 85 races. There's no way I would have done that with a 4200lb ZL1.

But they do, look at the initial cost of a 2014-2015 ZL1 vs what they are now, they are still in the mid 40's for low mile examples and the MSRP was mid 50's. Many Z28's were bought on the mid 60K range and are in the mid to low 50's with comparable miles, the people who paid MSRP and MSRP+ are getting hosed.

I doubt you could get 55k for yours with it's history as there are more than a few out there for sale at that price that don't have your cars background.

You are the exception, not the rule Joelster good on you for pulling the heads....it will be a good move for years of good service to come. I hope others follow suit if they enjoy the car.

[FASTFATBOY]

[QUOTE=SIM GhostrdrZ;11288160]

Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY

The above post belongs on Twitter. You actually did a search on me because you are so butthurt.....amazing.

The Z28 is a car no one wanted and it is still this way from it's lack of monetary appreciation, the ZL1's of the same years have held their value as good or better than the Z28 even with their "trash shocks and superchargers" and there were thousands more built.

Owners who choose to ignore the LS7's issues because it is sitting in a Camaro however is my focus. The LS7 is going to have issues, I did the research, I know why the heads of valves pop off.

You pop the engine and "just buy another $25K engine" you just dropped the cars value by 30% on top of spending $25K so then it truly is worth nothing along with that engine having the same issues as the one that originally popped. Don't forget, when it pops it contaminates the oil coolers and the entire dry sump system so all that needs to be replaced also.

Most of these cars were purchased to gain value later on, not to drive and beat on.

My message is pretty simple, get the heads fixed.


But run on sentences.....[/QUOTE

Awful post I made, true. You speak many truths as I’ve previously posted. I’ve been on this forum for many years helping and being helped by members. You, my friend are getting annoying. Every LS7 owner knew before the Z28 came out what and why the problems are. I hate my Z28 so let’s just turn every Z28 thread into a hate raging one. One post stating you chose not to buy one because of xyz would suffice. Responding to members posts stating why their car sucks is getting annoying but maybe constructive criticism about avenues to fix heads or other issues and where to go is more in line with what this forum was intended for.

FYI: I can only speak for myself but I bought every car and my Z28 for enjoyment and I don’t care what my kids get for them once I’m gone.

Another awful post from me:

The butthurt here is amazing.

Me posting facts is somehow hurting feelings, the world we live in I guess.


Pull the heads and have them fixed if you want trouble free enjoyment is what I've been saying here. 2K to fix the heads vs 20K for an engine and losing the value of the car because it's original engine has a window in the block seems legit to me. But I digress...

[JRowe500]

[QUOTE=FASTFATBOY;11288356]

Originally Posted by SIM GhostrdrZ

The butthurt here is amazing.

Me posting facts is somehow hurting feelings, the world we live in I guess.


Pull the heads and have them fixed if you want trouble free enjoyment is what I've been saying here. 2K to fix the heads vs 20K for an engine and losing the value of the car because it's original engine has a window in the block seems legit to me. But I digress...

Dude its just your opinion (everyone has one just like something else). Nobody is butthurt but you. I don't understand why you keep coming back to the Z28 forum. There is no food here. I guess you just need attention. Enjoy. he should be on a diet.

[4 FN 27]

Originally Posted by macalot

I remember your original post. Your motor wasn't broke in yet at 958 miles, but it did get broken at 6800 rpm. I listened to GM and broke mine in properly before running it like I Stole it. NO problems here, yet and I do run it hard just about every outing. You're lucky having the dealer relationship you do have though. Do you still own it?

Broke in or not really doesn't matter. Proven that 1000+ times before with fresh motors off the dyno. Breaking it in would have just delayed the inevitable.

Yep. I still own it. Never will sell it. I am trying to corner the market on 427 GMs. Just picked up a '67 427 L68 AC 4-Speed Coupe last summer (3rd owner survivor) and have first right of refusal on a 1 owner '67 427 Impala with under 50K on it.

[FASTFATBOY]

[QUOTE=JRowe500;11288407]

Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY

Dude its just your opinion (everyone has one just like something else). Nobody is butthurt but you. I don't understand why you keep coming back to the Z28 forum. There is no food here. I guess you just need attention. Enjoy. he should be on a diet.

My opinion?

There are thousands of blown up LS7s, tens of thousands of LS7 heads have been found to be out of spec and "fixed", class action lawsuits and GM even admitted to the issue with a TSB. You can choose to put your head in the sand, that is 100% your choice. What I have posted in here isn't "opinion."

Trust me on this, I'm not butthurt but it seems you and a few others are.

Have a nice day.

[JRowe500]

[QUOTE=FASTFATBOY;11288466]

Originally Posted by JRowe500

My opinion?

There are thousands of blown up LS7s, tens of thousands of LS7 heads have been found to be out of spec and "fixed", class action lawsuits and GM even admitted to the issue with a TSB. You can choose to put your head in the sand, that is 100% your choice. What I have posted in here isn't "opinion."

Trust me on this, I'm not butthurt but it seems you and a few others are.

Have a nice day.

Come on be a man. Admit that your butthurt. You wouldnt be posting here if you werent. Your over exaggeration shows butthurt desperation. Tens of thousands? How many were made? According to you more then half have failed or all. Your showing yourself to be a fool. Thanks for exposing yourself. Have a nice night.

[Vinmar9]

As a new owner, I have to ask what the issue with the heads/intake valves is. Going thru my paperwork from the previous owner, the heads were replaced around 15k miles under warranty for excessive intake to valve guide wear. Mine was one of the first 48 produced so was there a known flaw with them being out of spec? I hoping that the new heads resolved the issue and I can consider it fixed.

[void_kp]

[QUOTE=FASTFATBOY;11288466]

Originally Posted by JRowe500

My opinion?

There are thousands of blown up LS7s, tens of thousands of LS7 heads have been found to be out of spec and "fixed", class action lawsuits and GM even admitted to the issue with a TSB. You can choose to put your head in the sand, that is 100% your choice. What I have posted in here isn't "opinion."

Trust me on this, I'm not butthurt but it seems you and a few others are.

Have a nice day.

you know, as a new member of this forum I have an important question to make: I totally believe there are thousands of blown up LS7, and I also believe most of them are for the same reason. The real question is: is there data that can prove that this problem, on Z06 or crate engines happened also on engines produced after 2013?
I think that this is the key element that keep missing every single fu*ing time ppl start arguing about this valve problem.

the fact that one gazillion of LS7 blew up is not surprising, they sold like a billion of z06 and crate LS7... you can't just mention the amount of blown engine. you need to talk about % and correlation with manufactoring year.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Vinmar9

As a new owner, I have to ask what the issue with the heads/intake valves is. Going thru my paperwork from the previous owner, the heads were replaced around 15k miles under warranty for excessive intake to valve guide wear. Mine was one of the first 48 produced so was there a known flaw with them being out of spec? I hoping that the new heads resolved the issue and I can consider it fixed.

Hi,
I don't want to engage in who has the bigger p... I mean cubic inches. The z28 is a great car, it has an iconic 427 engine, the only problem with the platform is what you describe.
It seems there is too much play or "wiggle" in the valves. I see the heavier intake valves seem to have a worse problem? The challenge is you don't know unless you hear it wiggling or tapping while running and it can let go and destroy the engine even while normal driving without have a big cam or redlining it. Has nothing to do with oil used or changed or break-in racing etc.

People like to fix it as you mentioned you found in your documentation.
I've heard the new heads also are known to come with the same problem.
I'm not knowledgeable to know if it's how the heads were machined and the whole valveguide is wiggling or just guide to valve clearance, sorry i can't answer that. If it's just guide to valve then replacing that cheap valve guide would fix it.
It seems having new heads if factory heads isn't a guarantee you would eat a valve. It's a shame to ruin such a good engine and I wish people would pro-actively fix them before ruining a great limited production item.

[CamayroZ]

Originally Posted by Vinmar9

As a new owner, I have to ask what the issue with the heads/intake valves is. Going thru my paperwork from the previous owner, the heads were replaced around 15k miles under warranty for excessive intake to valve guide wear. Mine was one of the first 48 produced so was there a known flaw with them being out of spec? I hoping that the new heads resolved the issue and I can consider it fixed.

Vinmar9,
If you want to get your head spinning, look over at the Corvette C6 Z06/ZR1 forum. I also own a ZR1 so I look over there sometimes.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-2005-2013-14/

But beware that a very profitable aftermarket industry has been developed to "fix" heads and so they continue to feed the forums. And since many of the owners are power and performance focused, they go for the head "fix" AND upgrade their engines HCI. So, the vendors are doing the "package" deals, and this really skews the data. (by the way, I am glad that there is an industry that supports LS7, but it is important to understand biases).

This is what I have learned in the past 10 years; you can do your own search:

1) GM has stated several times that the issue is small, and they have published several statements on the topic. The issue was apparently the machining supplier of heads (Linamar) did not concentric final/finish machine the guides.

2) GM made a valve change in 2008 as in material change and supplier change. I forget the details now, but it was an improvement although it did NOT kill the issue.

3) Multiple Z06 owners have "failed" the wiggle test, and fewer have lost engines. I do not have facts/data/statistics, but there were improvements in the later years. However, the issue remained on crate engines, and later engines, etc. These owners had to get their heads repaired or replaced.

--> It is important to understand people's biases: GM has long moved on from the LS7, but they will tell you that the issue is minor. The aftermarket suppliers are now very active and they will tell you to fix" the head (...and by the way time to upgrade while you are in there...)

I am probably older than a couple of the forum members combined, tracking cars since around 1988, and being a car nut my whole life.

I can think of a long list of cars / engines that over time have had an "issue". So what, if you like the car you deal with it? Porsches with IMS/RMS, Pinning coolant lines, harmonic issues, cylinder scoring; Fords with late post injection issue and liner wear, or Ecoboost with head gasket failures, other with lifter wear; BMW with subframes cracking, V8 with cylinder scoring, Turbo engines with head issues...I can go on and on and on... I had a GT350R with the 5.2 Voodoo and Ford did not want me to drive it...Heck my LS9 ZR1 needing clutch master cylinder and snout change, etc.

You have a great car. Your LS7 (if stock) may or may not have the valve guide wear issue. Remove valve cover and do this basic test and decide. This is cheap and easy!! And then decide what you want to do, but beware of the biases here!

[4 FN 27]

Originally Posted by CamayroZ

So what, if you like the car you deal with it?

Amen!!!

God had them bolted together so we can fix them. Otherwise they would be welded.

[Z28000]

Someone up top said there was almost 20 z28 on cargurus for sale I couldn’t find one

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Z28000

Someone up top said there was almost 20 z28 on cargurus for sale I couldn’t find one

I wasn't one who mentioned availablity on car gurus, but I'll provide a link if it helps you in your research...it says 19 results as of this minute


https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...tedEntity=d606

[Z28000]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

I wasn't one who mentioned availablity on car gurus, but I'll provide a link if it helps you in your research...it says 19 results as of this minute


https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...tedEntity=d606

Thank you now I see it ����