09-24-2018, 04:03 AM | #71 |
Drives: Grandad's C2 L89 Join Date: May 2017
Location: 20*51.50N 156*29.60W
Posts: 1,711
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What you accomplished by yourself, in your garage, without specialty tools, with nothing more than floor jacks, jack stands and race ramps is nothing short of stellar. Bravo!
A ZLE guy here looking forward to your impressions.
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2018 ZL1 1LE sw/PDR
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09-24-2018, 08:09 AM | #72 | |
Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 1,558
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Quote:
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09-24-2018, 08:59 AM | #73 |
Drives: 1LEs Join Date: May 2009
Location: DFW - Texas
Posts: 1,319
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In the pics with your buddy showing ride height differences, where did you have the front DSSV's set, all the way down or...? On your initial impressions, at road course speeds, I'm sure the aero goes well with the FEA suspension and vice versa. At autocross speeds, not as much. You thinking of doing the A1Z's aero now?
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09-24-2018, 09:14 AM | #74 |
Drives: 17 ZL1 4300 03/16/2017 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas
Posts: 112
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Travis,
Thanks for the thread. I don't track my ZL1 but I do strip it. I had ordered my parts (GM solid rear cradle bushings and BMR solid differential bushings) before I found your thread but I feel a lot better about the install after reading your thread and seeing the pictures you took. The inspired dialog was really helpful and I'll add a special shout out to TRZ06 who's comments were beneficial for questions I still had. My differential bushing are scheduled for delivery Wednesday of this week and the GM rear cradle bushing are still up in the air. My experience has been very interesting trying to source the GM rear cradle bushings. Thanks to all for a thread that has been very helpful for me.
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2017 ZL1 Coupe, MBM, A10, PDR, CF Hood Insert, ZL1 matts, 50th Anv. Indoor Cover
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09-24-2018, 08:58 PM | #75 | |||||
Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 1,558
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Here are my thoughts on the suspension swap...
Let's get the cradle bushing out of the way... The only Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH) increase I noticed was after a hard shift. There is a small driveline clunk noise from the ring and pinion that seems to resonate up. Other than that, I haven't noticed any additional noise from the rear on the street or the track. The upside is a nice improvement to the car's behavior on hard corner exits. I also noticed in a straight line when the car's rear tires break free into a spin, the rear doesn't get "squirrelly" when the tires recover and grab. I seem to recall and occasional kick feeling before in this scenario. Overall, this is probably a nice improvement for the hardcore drag-strip or road course enthusiast. For the occasional dragstrip test-n-tune or HPDE attendee, I'd wouldn't bother. This is a very involved installation, and the difference isn't worth the investment for the average Joe. Enjoy your car and save your money for tires. On to the remainder of the FEA suspension... Let's start with the street driving. After having both the FE4 and FEA suspensions, I have a better appreciation for the level of comfort provided by the FE4 suspension. The difference is night and day. My buddy who owns the other ZL1 in the picture has owned other vehicles with pretty stiff suspensions. He was considering the FEA swap, but he took a short street ride with me and was immediately convinced the FEA suspension was not for him. For me, this car is not nearly as fun on the street because of the poor ride quality. At first, I remember thinking this isn't so bad, but the smile slowly faded from my face with each mile. It doesn't take long before the bumps start to get pretty annoying and the obscenities start flying with each jolt to the spine. Had I started with the FEA I might have a different perspective, but I was spoiled by the FE4. There's certainly no improvement in street performance to justify the FEA ride quality sacrifice. The FE4 is WAAAAY better on the street in every measure as far as I'm concerned. If you are thinking about this swap and you drive more miles on the street than on the track, I'd strongly recommend against it. Don't get caught up in the DSSV marketing etc.. Just remember the FE4 is fantastic on the street and the track, and some of the best performance cars in the world use magnetic ride control. And... if you happen to have the FEA suspension, be honest when people ask you about it. The ride quality is pretty terrible and nobody is going to take your man card for calling it what it is. For those who say the FEA is not that bad, I challenge you to drive a car with the FE4 suspension and then go back to the FEA. Before moving to the track review, let me say this review is NOT meant to be a comparison of the ZL1 and the ZL1 1LE. I intend for this to primarily be a comparison of the FE4 and the FEA suspensions on a ZL1 specifically at the PittRace track. Please keep this in mind for any comments you have. First a couple notes:
The first FEA track day was spent getting a feel for the car. The car was much more neutral than I was used to. The stock FE4 has significant understeer characteristics, but the FEA was much more neutral with some oversteer on corner exit. I didn't notice any real difference in ride comfort on the track, but who cares about ride comfort on the track anyway, right? My best time for the first day was about 2 seconds off pace from my best time with the FE4 (I misplaced the SD card I was using Saturday, but I have a good idea of my times.) Honestly, I was a little frustrated having sacrificed significant street driveability with no track performance improvements to offset the sacrifice. For the second day, I adjusted the rear stabilizer end-link forward to the softer position and did my best to keep the rear tires a couple PSI lower than the front. I was blown away by what difference this made. After this adjustment, the car was very neutral. I immediately was back to running about the same as the FE4 suspension, but without the tire destroying understeer. When it was all said and done, I achieved a new personal-best time of 1:52.97. That's a whopping 0.85 seconds faster than my FE4 personal-best that was ran in 30 degree warmer air. I'd call that effectively the same given the temperature difference. Looking at the lateral acceleration chart, I don't see a significant difference between the grip levels achieved with the FE4 vs FEA. However, it appears the tires are wearing much more evenly with the added stiffness and camber. FEA in Red FE4 in Blue At this is time, I don't believe the FEA by itself offers a significant track performance improvement over the FE4. Is the FEA better for the track? Without a doubt, but the benefits I see are ancillary (tire wear, wider tire/wheel options, weight savings, etc.). For an analog device, I think it's amazing that the DSSVs can offer comparable performance to an electronic ride control system. Just don't expect the suspension swap alone to immediately reduce lap times, because it probably won't happen. Here's the FE4 Lap: Here's the FEA Lap: I have lots of data, so if there's something specific you'd like to see let me know. Thanks for reading! -------------------------------------- Below are some preemptive rebuttals: Quote:
ZL1 in Red ZL1 1LE in Blue Quote:
Quote:
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Last edited by travislambert; 04-08-2019 at 07:42 PM. |
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09-24-2018, 09:08 PM | #76 | |
Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 1,558
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On the aero, I'm pretty skeptical for PittRace. Maybe one day I'll change my mind, but for now I think it's faster without it. My next move will likely be lightweight wheels and wider tires. I'll probably go with 19s.
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09-24-2018, 11:26 PM | #77 |
Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,014
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Thanks for the update and your thoughts.
This confirms my decision was the right one for me as a daily driver who likes to canyon carve. Solid cradle bushings, track alignment, and leave the MRC alone. Just have a few cosmetic things to add, and will be ordering the Corsa Exhaust tomorrow and then I will do done with mods.
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Current:
22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers) Previous: 18' NFG 2SS 1LE (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust) 16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers) 13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs) 09' C6 Z06 08' E90 M3 06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers) 03' C5 Z06 |
09-24-2018, 11:42 PM | #78 | |
Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,014
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Quote:
Going down the suspension mod. road can be a hit or miss and not a cheap road. I am glad if I helped someone else out down their path.
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Current:
22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers) Previous: 18' NFG 2SS 1LE (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust) 16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers) 13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs) 09' C6 Z06 08' E90 M3 06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers) 03' C5 Z06 |
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09-25-2018, 04:37 AM | #79 | |
Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 1,558
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Quote:
This is what the forums are all about.
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09-25-2018, 04:52 AM | #80 | |
Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 1,558
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Quote:
I'm betting there are a bunch of silent readers in the same boat as you. I feel like all I proved is how good the FE4 suspension is. Hopefully that'll help those people be happier with their FE4s, and save some money.
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09-25-2018, 06:51 AM | #81 |
Big Samoan ina little car
Drives: 2016 camaro Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tofiga Island
Posts: 1,872
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Definitely appreciate the honesty. I've been eyeing the DSSV suspension since they announced it was coming out. Given that I've upgraded from the FE2 suspension to FE3 there's been some gives and takes. Such as the FE3 suspension handles better. But in terms of comparison of the two, feels softer.
Seeing how this is deeming to be a race only suspension in terms of driving feel, as a daily driven car, im leaning away now for two reasons. The ride height change and the stiff level. Granted, I've had really really low level coilovers on various other cars and then also had a $3,500 set of KW V3, this seems like it would be Overkill on anything other than a track only car. My view on that may change in the future given I usually adapt to whatever I'm driving as most do. But so far I'm struggling to think about how I'd be driving that set up in the winter there's snow and ice as well. So thank you for the review data and replies which answered a lot of the questions I've had over the past year
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Don't sit around and watch everyone else live YOUR dreams...DO SUMPT'N
When I see posts asking "whats the best intake, exhaust, etc" .... the answer to that is like a grandfather telling his grandkids "if you put salt on a birds tail, it'll let you catch it" #ThinkAboutIt "Winning Tip: Don't take my (or anyone else's) word for it. GO TEST IT!" - Dennis Grant |
09-25-2018, 07:03 AM | #82 |
Drives: 1LEs Join Date: May 2009
Location: DFW - Texas
Posts: 1,319
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One of the best, most honest threads about modifications done supported with pics and data. Thanks!
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09-25-2018, 11:36 AM | #83 | |
Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,014
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Quote:
I already knew that the MRC was awesome, as I have it on my Audi TTRS, but when you go directly from Ohlin coilovers, your expectations are high. Also with MRC, it is more about the programming rather than the hardware. Audi did a AWESOME job tuning them for the TTRS, but that car weighs 3,200Lbs. GM did an amazing job as well with the 3,700Lbs. 1LE The DSSV set-up is truly a track first approach. To come full circle, this is the reason I choose the SS 1LE over the ZL1 1LE in the first place. I was dead set on the ZL1 1LE when I was looking at a replacement for my M3, but then I discovered what the SS 1LE was about and that GM did that model proper. Knowing what I know now, I would still pick the SS 1LE and just do the solid rear cradle bushings. What do you plan on doing? You going to keep the DSSV's in or swap back to the MRC?
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Current:
22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers) Previous: 18' NFG 2SS 1LE (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust) 16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers) 13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs) 09' C6 Z06 08' E90 M3 06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers) 03' C5 Z06 |
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09-25-2018, 12:48 PM | #84 | |
Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Fairmont, WV
Posts: 1,558
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Quote:
Over the winter I hope to get some wider/lightweight 19" wheels. Maybe HREs or Forgelines. I've also been toying with the idea of a 2.3 supercharger swap. I have a lot of research to do before making that leap though.
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