MT: 2026 Camaro EV

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Keko

^ +1 Motortrend is laughable. I will eat my shoe if there is a 2026 EV Camaro.

Just like the Ford Mustang Mach E, GM already makes the EV Camaro... It's called the Blazer...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by ItsChristianInHD

This is just speculation.

I don’t see a new Camaro for years. I’m talking 2030. We would already know about it if it was coming back in 2026.

It takes 5-7 years to design and build a car.

It’s actually a lot less than that now. With an existing architecture 4 years would be long.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Sometimes true, sometimes not. When I get a chance Tuesday or Wednesday I’ll post the inventory status of several EVs. The ones that are “piling up” pretty much fit into a few categories…

• Way over-priced compared to other EVs of similar type.
• Very low range (<200 miles) compared to other EVs
• Lower trim level (typically 1-motor) versions of an EV that also offers 2-motor
• Imported and do not qualify for the IRA incentive

The ones that are flying off the lots tend to be:

• Priced in the $40 - 65k range
• 300+ driving range
• 2 or more electric motors

What we’ll find is 1-motor Nissan Ariya sit on the lots, especially the base battery size models with under 300 mile range. Meanwhile 2-motor Nissan Ariya with 300+ mile range are hard to find. We’ll find that base trim Bolt EV sits on lots but higher trim levels and Bolt EUV move pretty quickly. We’ll find that Polestar, Rivian, and Tesla move very fast. VW I.D4 not so much (short range).

There’s also an issue where for the first few months of sales, any addition of inventory looks like a humongous days supply, but it is more an issue of the math hasn’t settled out. This is actually true of all new nameplates, but since most EVs are new nameplates it shows up there. So what does that mean? Example…

Company A launches a new EV. In the first month of sales, they only sell 12. So now, the “average sales/ day is like 0.6.

Then in the second month they start filling dealership inventory. They push 2,000 units into inventory in the second month, and sales come in at 200. So average sales/day is now 5.3 (212 / 40) and the inventory is 340 days of inventory (1,800 / 5.3).

The next couple months they sell 2,400 and add another 2,000 to inventory. Their average sales per day is now 2,612 / 80 = 32.65. And their days inventory is 1,400/32.65 = 43 days inventory.

Stop with all your facts that refute the talking point

[Smokin19]

Remember the song "Take this job and shove it" , that's how I feel about EV's.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Capricio

I keep getting stuff in my newsfeed about Toyota being on the cusp of fielding solid state batteries that won't burn like a magnesium flare if they get hot or flooded, with a 750 mile range, etc... why would I sign up now? crappy range, crappy charge times, crappy power distribution where i live...

A really good point. As I’ve said a lot of people go to work every day to develop, create and invent better solutions.

Range isn’t the issue. I doubt anyone would pay for 750 mile range. The improvement needed is charge time. And if you can get 300 miles of range (regardless of battery state of charge) in under 10 minutes that will be a big win. That and cost. Many years ago predictions showed we would have crossed the threshold of an EV costing less than an equivalent ICE. Hasn’t happened yet.

This is also partly why GM is axing the Bolt and Bolt EUV. Old battery tech and it’s not on the Ultium architectures.

Also note GM is quietly announcing several new ICE vehicles. New Traverse shown yesterday.

[Camby]

Thanks for sharing your AI click bait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Sometimes true, sometimes not. When I get a chance Tuesday or Wednesday I’ll post the inventory status of several EVs. The ones that are “piling up” pretty much fit into a few categories…

• Way over-priced compared to other EVs of similar type.
• Very low range (<200 miles) compared to other EVs
• Lower trim level (typically 1-motor) versions of an EV that also offers 2-motor
• Imported and do not qualify for the IRA incentive

The ones that are flying off the lots tend to be:

• Priced in the $40 - 65k range
• 300+ driving range
• 2 or more electric motors

...

As promised. Data comes from S&P Global vehicle sales and inventory reports. As you can imagine, it's a huge report so I just pulled out anything electric or fuel cell. June 2023 days on hand in bold. "Optimal" is 60 days +/- 5.

TLDR: Most of the more popular EVs do not have a dealer network and therefore no reported inventory. They tend to have delivery times of 30 - 90 days depending on how popular they are. Hummer EV, Nissan Leaf, VW ID.4 and Ford Mach E aside, EVs aren't having much of a problem moving the metal. Mach E actually sells well, but Ford may have overbuilt inventory. It may also be worth noting that Mach E sales are the most impacted by recent Tesla price drops. Ford may have projected sales / build rate without the knowledge that Tesla would intentionally undercut Mach E pricing with Model Y price drop. Ford does not break out Lightning from total F-150 sales and inventory. At least not in this report.

Vehicle / Avg. Daily Sales / Inventory Jun / Days Supply Jun / Days Supply May / Days Supply June '22

Challenger / 162 / 17,089 / 106 / 79 / 63
Camaro / 123 / 4,160 / 34 / 29 / 78
Mustang / 79 / 5,136 / 65 / 36 / 29
Corvette / 121 / 1,251 / 10 / 12 / 7

Cars
Nissan Leaf / 23 / 2,296 / 101 / 68 / 2
Tesla Model 3 / 757 / No dealers therefore no inventory stats
Polestar 2 / 43 / No dealers therefore no inventory stats
Hyundai Ioniq 6 / 45 / 4,065 / 91 / 82 / wasn't available in June '22
Tesla Model S / 69 / No dealers therefore no inventory data
Mercedes EQE / 21 / 1,530 / 72 / 45 / wasn't available in June '22
Mercedes EQS / 34 / 2,751 / 82 / 77 / 44
Audi eTron GT / 14 / 317 / 23 / 40 / 23
Toyota Mirai / 18 / 722 / 41 / 56 / 7

Trucks & Utes
Bolt EUV / 128 / 2,679 / 21 / 35 / 88
Hyundai Ioniq 5 / 121 / 6,913 / 57 / 69 / 4
VW ID.4 / 109 / 10,569 / 97 / 76 / 22
Kia EV6 / 56 / 3,963 / 71 / 38 / 9
Nissan Ariya / 28 / 4,134 / 147 / 116 / wasn't available June '22
Tesla Model Y / 1,376 / No dealers therefore no inventory data
Mercedes EQB / 25 / 1,174 / 47 / 35 / wasn't available June '22
Hyundai Nexo / 8 / 105 / 341 / 145 / 18
Ford Mach E / 158 / 13,092 / 83 / 112 / 89
Toyota bZ4X / 24 / 2,238 / 93 / 76 / 700
VinFast VF8 / 14 / No dealers therefore no inventory data
Tesla Model X / 92 / No dealers therefore no inventory data
BMW iX / 54 / 1,514 / 28 / 25 / 7
M-B EQS SUV / 39 / 2,945 / 76 / 65
Rivian R1S / 7 No dealers therefore no inventory data
Audi eTron / 5 / 56 / 12 / 12 / 5
M-B EQE SUV / 0 / 2,831 Vehicle in launch mode, no sales data available yet
Rivian R1T / 132 / No dealers therefore no inventory data
Hummer EV / 1 / 588 / 510 / 592 / 46
Bolt EV / 78 / 2,830 / 36 / 28 / 17
BMW XM / 8 / 488 / 59 / 56 / Not available in June '22
Rivian EDV / 24 / No dealers therefore no inventory data
Cadillac Lyriq / 18 / 2,155 / 118 / 70 / Not available June '22

Fire away!!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Stop with all your facts that refute the talking point

I'm just a d!ck. A d!ck with data.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Number 3

This is also partly why GM is axing the Bolt and Bolt EUV. Old battery tech and it’s not on the Ultium architectures.

Also note GM is quietly announcing several new ICE vehicles. New Traverse shown yesterday.

Why quietly? Can't have anything distract from the EV campaign?

Where is the General on solid state tech, sodium based cells? Lithium/cobalt seems rare, expensive, extremely flammable under certain conditions, and environmentally devastating to the poorest countries on the planet under Chinese management.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/sand...m-ion-battery/

"Ford, Mercedes, Toyota, and VW are all betting big on these room-temperature solid-state batteries. They're hard to scale up for production (Sandy likens it to "trying to glue potato chips together with two-way tape"), but they charge faster, are not flammable, boast 2-8 times the energy density, and typically require no toxic materials.

All of which led Munro to declare: "When these batteries are in production, there will be no comparison between the current technology or anything petroleum based—[solid state] is the kiss of death for gasoline and diesel.""

I respectfully disagree that gas and diesel will disappear so quickly, but lithium based tech sure would. I'd rather wait up to 10 years for solid state if half of this stuff is true. Maybe none it is... but, until I know what to believe, I'd rather stash money for retirement than hedge any bets. I used to get crap in my newsfeed 8-9 years ago printing solar cells on reeled spools for cheap, "It'll revolutionize our power grid!" Haven't seen that yet. Fusion reactors, anyone?

When I see stuff like this... I can't rationalize buying a currently offered EV lithium/cobalt powered truck for $70k that will have deliver 10% less power over 10 years and then need a new battery that will effectively total it. And, as someone else pointed out, if this pie-in -the-sky solid state hype plays out, any Lithium based platform will become nearly worthless unless OEM's stick to a truly modular retro-fittable battery platform, which I'm guessing they won't, since longevity isn't necessarily in their interests, selling new trucks is.

You're right, range isn't critical if charge times are fast enough and public access to charging stations is readily available. Neither is true enough for me right now. And, nobody has even uttered a thought about how gas taxes pay for road infrastructure. Start factoring that into your "cheap" KWH rates at some point, as well as the cost of the upgraded power generation/transmission infrastructure. This honeymoon with cheap power rates won't last forever.

As excited as GM is about the Ultium platform, I remain a bit skeptical about building a subcompact crossover (since sedans are damned near illegal now) and a full size SUV or whatever on the same "skateboard" platform, just with different "frosting" on top. Will this narrow or widen the pricing between low and high tier vehicles? Logic says it should narrow the gap but we'll see... All the OEMs seem obsessed now with getting to a $50k average transaction price and producing fewer vehicles and mostly high margin upscale versions. Greed is what led us to whatever market conditions come next, for better or worse. I don't begrudge anyone making a profit, but don't be surprised when consumers eventually turn their backs to you.

Too much uncertainty, not enough infrastructure, not enough range, slow charge times, prices too high... going to keep my 4 ICE V8 GM vehicles running as long as I can. Never thought I'd be another grumpy old man on a forum, but... here I am, I guess.

[Need4Camaro]

Gasoline and Diesel are not going anywhere anytime soon. Both are a biproduct of oil refining. Oil is still necessary in alot more products than just fuel. Concrete and Roads depend on it, Plastics depend on it, heck even Wind Turbines and Lithium mining depends on it. Also the transition to EV's is not going to be a hasty one. It will take decades or longer before the average vehicle on the road is a EV.

[Mike818]

I'm holding out for solid state before going full BEV.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Gasoline and Diesel are not going anywhere anytime soon. Both are a biproduct of oil refining. Oil is still necessary in alot more products than just fuel. Concrete and Roads depend on it, Plastics depend on it, heck even Wind Turbines and Lithium mining depends on it. Also the transition to EV's is not going to be a hasty one. It will take decades or longer before the average vehicle on the road is a EV.

Not to mention it being a vital component of fertilizer. So as long as we want to eat we'll probably need it.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I work at a company that provides vehicle forecasts. I used to do the powertrain forecast. MT probably got their information from one of our forecasts. Our forecast shows Camaro EV coming in 2026 as a 2027 MY.

One of the reasons GM is going so far down the EV path is that once you get the platform developed, developing additional vehicles off the same platform is easier with EVs than ICE. Today GM has more than a dozen vehicle platforms, about 10 - 12 different engine families, and 4 or 5 transmission families. With EVs, they have basically 4 vehicle platforms to build their entire vehicle portfolio from. Three or four electric motors and one basic drive unit that can be paired with any of the electric motors to support either FWD, RWD or AWD configurations. It will no longer take 5 years to design a vehicle from start to finish. Maybe three.

Simplicity (or at least the promise of it) is kind becoming the last leg left of the EV justification stool since cost, depreciation, ownership costs (insurance) and being green are falling by the wayside. GM is appearing to "go so far down the EV path" because they have been given no choice by federal and state governments or aren't you aware of that? Look at the panicked squawking when commitments earlier than 2035 were suggested. Trust me, manufacturers know and are counting on these legislative timetables slipping. EV's are headaches and money losers if they ever truly have to build in high volume. And if battery technology evolves as rapidly as predicted to address known issues the costs of either maintaining legacy service infrastructure for existing and near term vehicles OR the exponential depreciation (as in becoming worthless) of these vehicles will be epic.

These are the fundamental issues of why automotive evolution tends to be incremental and new technology has to be well developed before introduction. Electric Vehicles are not fully developed, do not have a stable supply chain and lack adequate support infrastructure.

[plus1zero]

Booooo