Maybe this will change some minds

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Number 3

And you’ve just hit on the biggest fallacy in the anti EV crowd. We are 30 years from being 100% EV. And you have to assume no improvements will be made when in fact improvements are ongoing. Just stop with this. Of course todays grid can’t handle the EVs in 2050. We all agree. But when upgrades are now in progress and will continue to be made it will keep up.

Except that we're not talking about the future, we're talking about right now. The whole point of the article is that GM is realizing that customers don't or can't get behind the EV vehicles at the moment. Going into a hybrid choice would have been a better option TO START the migration to vehicles like EV or possible other zero emission vehicles.

The whole point is that you would get more people buying in on things that make the transition easier to stomach while providing time to transition said grid/improvements/etc....

Originally Posted by Number 3

Also you need to explain how CNG is better than an EV. And if you research it you will find CNG is not more efficient than gas.

Well let's just start at the entire amount of waste that a single EV battery makes when it is no longer usable, or takes to make one that you can put in the car..... then let's compare to CNG which is a lot easier, more abundant, and would take less time for adoption as a hybrid choice. Again, this isn't about tomorrow or 20 years from now.... it's about RIGHT NOW...

Originally Posted by Number 3

And no one has mandated EVs. What has been mandated is zero emission vehicles. The best way to do that happens to be EV. FCEV would meet that as well. But from the OEMs EVs are the best way to meet ZEV requirements. So the government isn’t mandating EVs, the car companies are simply acknowledging EVs are the best way to achieve this.

Name me a single zero emission car that is capable of being used by the global public that isn't solar powered. It's called EV. Yes, they are being mandated because it's the only way to meet the zero emission laws.

Oh, and there's the lovely EPA law mandate that Biden is trying to pass to force EV's

https://energycommerce.house.gov/pos...the-ev-mandate

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Except that we're not talking about the future, we're talking about right now. The whole point of the article is that GM is realizing that customers don't or can't get behind the EV vehicles at the moment. Going into a hybrid choice would have been a better option TO START the migration to vehicles like EV or possible other zero emission vehicles.

The whole point is that you would get more people buying in on things that make the transition easier to stomach while providing time to transition said grid/improvements/etc....



Well let's just start at the entire amount of waste that a single EV battery makes when it is no longer usable, or takes to make one that you can put in the car..... then let's compare to CNG which is a lot easier, more abundant, and would take less time for adoption as a hybrid choice. Again, this isn't about tomorrow or 20 years from now.... it's about RIGHT NOW...



Name me a single zero emission car that is capable of being used by the global public that isn't solar powered. It's called EV. Yes, they are being mandated because it's the only way to meet the zero emission laws.

Oh, and there's the lovely EPA law mandate that Biden is trying to pass to force EV's

https://energycommerce.house.gov/pos...the-ev-mandate

Well I’ve often said I hope California would pass a law that unless pharmaceutical companies develop a cure for cancer they can’t sell their drugs in California.

[Grtpkn]

Interesting read.
https://www.city-journal.org/article...ctric-vehicles

[dpevans]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Actually, those of who understand that prices aren't "the economy", and can see even the post-rebound covid gains, and who understand "engagement" in unemployment means people are actually working, know your statements are completely untrue. We can all celebrate a good economy, but I understand it's tougher to believe for those who are hand-to-mouth.

Relatively good wage growth and the stock market nearing all-time highs is a pretty good indicator things are rolling right along. Did you also happen to see the recent GDP growth for Q4? 3.2%. Amazing.

Ever heard of inflation. 9% inflation in 2021 outpaced GPD at 5.9% so any increase in GPD over the last three years has been inflationary, which in economic terms means the economy is not producing more it's more expensive to purchase items. There has been no real growth, growth comes when GPD outpaces inflation and wage growth outpaces inflation and in three years neither of these has taken place. I bought a 2024 and the car cost 5k more than the exact same car in 2023, that's not GPD grow thats inflation.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by dpevans

Ever heard of inflation. 9% inflation in 2021 outpaced GPD at 5.9% so any increase in GPD over the last three years has been inflationary, which in economic terms means the economy is not producing more it's more expensive to purchase items. There has been no real growth, growth comes when GPD outpaces inflation and wage growth outpaces inflation and in three years neither of these has taken place. I bought a 2024 and the car cost 5k more than the exact same car in 2023, that's not GPD grow thats inflation.

Inflation, like, inflate a balloon? I've never heard of it.

What's GPD?

[genxer]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Maybe it will change some minds that GM is not going to offer the customers the options we want....so I agree with you there.

But in my mind it just feels like spectacular validation to what I've been saying for a long time now....Hybrids are the answer!!! ...more specifically...plug in hybrids. At least, until we come up with a viable solution for all the issues that plague current EVs. If we want the fastest way to reduce emissions now, hybrid is the answer.

The full EV huggers will say "But it doesn't eliminate tail pipe emissions, it doesn't go far enough" Well how much further than eliminating tail pipe emissions by somewhere between 75 to 90 percent of regular driving do we need to go? Most people will be able get to and from work/stores/errands without using much if any gas. Goodbye range anxiety. Goodbye huge heavy expensive batteries. Goodbye to the huge use of limited rare earth materials for one single large battery. Goodbye to the urgency to spend billions of dollars expanding charging stations across America as fast as possible.

If GM had committed to vastly widening their Voltec platform to their other cars and small/mid SUVs instead of killing it altogether, they'd be in a better place today and they could call themselves the most "green" car company in existence. I'm pretty much convinced if the Volt wasn't a small sedan, but rather a modern small/mid-size SUV thing it would have sold well.

Voltec like platform in a nice looking CUV the size of an Equinox = printing money.

Chevy's people mover buyers are probably more value discriminating than Toyota's or Honda's. The new 'Nox (ICE) is aimed at squeezing more blood from a stone, not gaining share. I hope they're looking at a cheaper engine/hybrid combo than Voltec there.

Compare potential Voltecs to the Pacifica hybrid, that starts over $50k, and Ramcharger with it's performance. If they s-can the 'Vette EV brand idea, the development could go to strong-priced EREVs, that aren't minivans.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well I’ve often said I hope California would pass a law that unless pharmaceutical companies develop a cure for cancer they can’t sell their drugs in California.

Well, that would be typical California.....

I actually don't have an issue with EV's and do respect their use/potential. If I could afford one, I'd have a Lucid in the driveway for a daily. The reality however is that this is like trying to go from learning to walk to skipping directly to running... that is where my frustration/annoyance comes from.

Would really have liked to see more alternative choices being pursued rather than just watching companies waste time on a pure EV route that is simply too expensive for the average person to switch to.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by ItsChristianInHD

Even Mr. Reuss chimed in.

I’m not against the idea of a hybrid camaro like an ERay. Full EV, I’m totally against for a sports car.

Toyota is probably in the sky seats saying “we told you so”.

Don’t tell me Reuss is that stupid. I don’t have all the prestigious degrees or experience working at GM and I was saying from the get go the E.V. market was going to be limited.

Reacting to changing environment? Really Mark? You’re making 7 figures to tell us that garbage?

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

I mentioned it since its a viable way to clean up existing technology with ICE and possibly eliminate waste through catalysts. This would significantly ease the need to double or triple electricity capacity over 10 years.

I couldnt care less about California's unrealistic and unattainable zero emission goals. But hey, if they want to continue down the path to burning the state down and forcing people to live in the dark all while China dumps ACTUAL pollution into the atmosphere, more power to them.

I lived in California in the 70's and 80's. I remember what LA's air quality used to be. When I was there in 2000 and again in 2019, it was clear that the pollution battle was won. Like any movement that has outlived its usefulness and wants to survive, the absurdity of CO2 as a pollutant came about as life support.

At any rate, someone better face reality and get to building the hundreds of nuclear power plants that are gonna be needed to replace all the hydroelectric and fossil fuel power generation thats slated to be eliminated.

That’s because you give politicians an inch they take infinite miles.

Like Reagan said, the 10 scariest words in the English language are “Hi, I’m from the government and I’m here to help”.

[Dynamical]

OMG, what have you done? The AI algorithms must be sending massive amounts of data to the "misinformation" officers right now. The re-education center transportation is on the way. The bus was delayed due to the EV battery catching on fire. They were forced to tap into the diesel bus reserve. (Propaganda media don't print that) Propagandists, agitators and clergymen continue damage control until the transportation arrives for these pesky useless eaters who think for themselves

[GreenZLE]

Hopefully, they make a good looking EV Camaro soon so someone can buy it and LT swap it!!!!!

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

Hopefully, they make a good looking EV Camaro soon so someone can buy it and LT swap it!!!!!

These guys are way ahead of you….. they’re my heroes:

https://youtu.be/5KmsVytiMDg?si=LmE1VjH-4aDGPzH9

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Well, that would be typical California.....

I actually don't have an issue with EV's and do respect their use/potential. If I could afford one, I'd have a Lucid in the driveway for a daily. The reality however is that this is like trying to go from learning to walk to skipping directly to running... that is where my frustration/annoyance comes from.

Would really have liked to see more alternative choices being pursued rather than just watching companies waste time on a pure EV route that is simply too expensive for the average person to switch to.

I also think there was a bit of Tesla stock envy that drove a lot of GM and Ford's decisions and rush. And there still is as Tesla sales are only getting higher. Number 1 selling car in the world is the Tesla Model Y at 1.2 million units. Tesla stock is simply crazy nuts and I think Barra had high hopes going all in would do the same.

The other driver is simply China. China is over double the car market of the US and BYD just passed Tesla in EV sales and they are still selling only in China. And GM is mostly Hybrid or EV there.

Lastly, GM did Hybrids. FST and SUVs and the Volt and ELR. None sold great and I think that left a bad taste to try again. Stellantis is basically copying the Volt propulsion system for their new pickup powertrain.

And fully agree on the cost.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

Hopefully, they make a good looking EV Camaro soon so someone can buy it and LT swap it!!!!!

Why would you want a slower car?