Why The ZL1 is better than an EV

[clg82]

Originally Posted by White1SS

Does California charge less for your registration as the car ages and depreciates ?

Yes but not enough to justify what they actually do with the $3,000 a year I'm paying before it starts to decrease.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by White1SS

Not to mention a ZL1 will be worth something in 10-20 years, a ZL1-1LE much more so. Of course very low mileage garage kept cars will fetch a real premium. Most EV's will essentially be worthless in 10 years, and a financial liability in 15- 20 years. Who would buy a 10 year old EV with the possibility of a 20-30k battery replacement looming ? If you can even get a battery for a 20 year old EV in the future, what will it cost then, and what will it cost to dispose of your toxic old half ton battery ?


I've read that a lot of insurance companies are considering dropping EV's, they are too much of a financial liability. A lot of body shops refuse to work on them as well. The smallest little bump or fender bender with an EV and the insurance company will total the car, they want no parts of possible environmental issues or fires from a damaged battery. Something as simple as going over a speed bump too fast could total your car.

Whole lot of FUD in this post. As for collectability, I suppose like every vehicle it depends on the vehicle, but the original Tesla Roadster is already appreciating and becoming a collectable.

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/10/22/...e-collectible/

Batteries only get cheaper as technology advances, it already has over the last 3 decades. By the time an EV needs a battery replacement there's a strong chance the battery cost will be cheaper than today AND even if it seems expensive to you now, let's say its $10-15K, if the cost of the used vehicle is low enough to offset that price then you're not really paying any more than any other used car and since EVs have very few parts that actually wear out, that's the only expensive cost you really have to worry about. A gasoline engine will wear out far quicker than an EV motor given similar circumstances along with MANY other replaceable parts that will also wear out and need replacing along the way.

[Kamero6]

The problem is the no serviceability of the car, not the mechanical or electric issues.

When the manufacturer doesn't sell parts, and you have to source totaled cars, that's an issue.

Chevy will sell you an engine or a ECU. Tesla doesn't sell key parts. Same business model as Apple. As long as you swipe the card and don't ask it's ok.

[White1SS]

Originally Posted by clg82

Yes but not enough to justify what they actually do with the $3,000 a year I'm paying before it starts to decrease.

Are you serious, your annual registration is 3k ?

[clg82]

Originally Posted by White1SS

Are you serious, your annual registration is 3k ?

I pay 1k for the Camaro, 1k for my wife Silverado (which California also considers an industrial vehicle and taxes me extra on) and 1k on my Chevrolet Trax.

[LeonardS]

I pay $80 per year for my 23 and 24 Camaros. My older Camaros are $20-$30 per year.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

People supporting ev's here don't live in cold northern states where temps in the winter can become well below 32 degrees. Lithium batteries do not charge well or not at all below 32. This greatly restricts where ev's are practical.

It’s 3 degrees in Detroit as I type this. My Tesla Model Y is in the garage charged to 80% (262 miles). It’s charged to 80% because I limit the charge to 80%. It’s way more than I need for everyday driving. For travelling I’ll charge to 100%

No issues charging it in the cold. This is my first winter with it, but fact of the matter is, many many people in this area have had Teslas through multiple winters. I would also point out that Teslas are even more popular in Canada than in the US. Go figure.

There is no doubt that I will not see all of the 262 miles driving it in the cold. There is also no doubt that I won’t need even half of it, so no worries on my part. It’s also true that all of my gas cars get lower mileage in winter because of fuel blend differences in the winter plus heating losses. Not a big deal because I can always find a gas station. Likewise, with the Tesla, I can always find my garage.

[clg82]

Would still like to know where Mr. Greenpeace JBones smogs that modified RS3 in California lolllllllllllll

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by DangerZL1

Very true. In TN there is an additional tax paid with your registration each year on EV or PHEVs to make up for the loss of hwy funds from gas taxes. It's $200 this year and will be $274 by 2026. Sales of EVs were down in 2023 from 2022 as more people are realizing the true ownership costs along with the inconveniences.

I’ll assume you are only talking about the state of Tennessee and not the US in total. In 2022 there were 810,466 EVs sold. In 2023 there were 1,187,086 EVs sold. That’s a 46% increase in EV sales year to year.

I don’t have the state by state breakdown in front of me yet, but typically, Tennessee has a pretty high sales rate of EVs. Nissan is located there and employees buy a lot of Nissan Leaf and Ariya.

[GreenZLE]

If they ever get EV's to charge in the same time it takes to fill up an ICE at a gas station, I might be interested in buying one. The range claims on many are just flat out lies. Taking one onto a track for a 1/2 hour session is a no go. If i thought there was anything to this global warming hoaxology, I might get one too.


EV's just arent capable of doing what I want a car to do and we've reached the summit as far as ICE emissions are concerned so I'll stick with ICE until the government forces me not to.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’ll assume you are only talking about the state of Tennessee and not the US in total. In 2022 there were 810,466 EVs sold. In 2023 there were 1,187,086 EVs sold. That’s a 46% increase in EV sales year to year.

I don’t have the state by state breakdown in front of me yet, but typically, Tennessee has a pretty high sales rate of EVs. Nissan is located there and employees buy a lot of Nissan Leaf and Ariya.

That's all well and good for the current administration that is telling these sheeple they NEED to buy one because ICE vehicles are going away. In reality there is no way that California itself can sustain all EV vehicles with the current infrastructure we have now nor in 10 years. Hell they ask us to stop using power when it's hot out during the summer, and have rolling blackouts

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MT-SS1LE

The climate wackos will never get me into some soulless, boring, appliance like an EV. Sounds like I'm not alone based on the complaints I read. That's why they are languishing on dealer lots. Who wants to spend $10K-$30K just to replace the battery when it dies? Not to mention, I have yet to see a SINGLE public charging station for these things anywhere. Try driving cross-country in an EV, better plan a month just to get to your destination. No thanks, they can keep em.

The “EVs are languishing on dealer lots” trope is an example of ask one more question and get right to the truth. That became a news story because Ford had more than 100 days inventory of Mach E and Lightning on their lots in one or two particular months. The target for vehicle inventory is typically considered ideal at 60 days inventory. Most other EVs were in low supply.

Today the EVs with more than 60 days supply are:

• Nissan Leaf (150 days)
• Audi ETron GT (98)
• Nissan Ariya (81)
• Jaguar I-Pace (337) Exactly 337 cars in inventory so sales is 1/day.
• Ford Mustang Mach E (118)
• Porsche Taycan (76)
• Kia EV6 (79)
• Toyota bZ4x (84)
• M-B EQS SUV (91)
• Chevrolet Bolt (71)
• Cadillac Lyriq (86)

By contrast, the EVs with less than 60 days are:

• Chevrolet Bolt EUV (55)
• GMC Hummer EV Pickup (40)
• GMC Hummer EV SUV (47)
• Hyundai Ioniq 5 (33)
• Hyundai Ioniq 6 (46)
• Kia EV9 (25)
• Subaru Solterra (44)
• VW ID.4 (53)
• BMW iX (17)
• M-B EQE SUV (56)

For the sake of comparison, Camaro has 72 days in inventory, Corvette has 21 days in inventory, Mustang has 87 days in inventory.

There are a few nuances here. Several EVs aren’t in my data because they are part of a broader nameplate and the companies have not split out the EV from the ICE / Hybrids. For example Hyundai Kona (ICE, Hybrid, and EV available). Kona as a brand has 32 days inventory but we can’t split out what’s EV and what’s not. Same for Ford F150 (69) and Kia Niro (50).

Now, the real reason I laugh at the “EV’s are sitting on dealer lots” videos is that the best selling EVs are Tesla, of course (more than 50% of all EVs sold), Rivian, Lucid, and Fisker. One interesting reason they don’t have a lot of inventory sitting on dealer lots…THEY DON’T HAVE DEALERS. Gotta love the internet. EVs don’t sell because they’re sitting on dealer lots when the fact is most EVs sell without dealers.

You make a very good point about not seeing chargers where you live. The northern Midwest states (Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, etc) are very sparse in terms of EV charging infrastructure. Even with Tesla, which has the most extensive network, you can look at the map and see that they have not really worked to add infrastructure there yet. If I lived in any of those states I sure as hell wouldn’t consider owning an EV.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

If they ever get EV's to charge in the same time it takes to fill up an ICE at a gas station, I might be interested in buying one. The range claims on many are just flat out lies.

Why not go one step better and eliminate the time spent at the gas station altogether? Personally, I would only recommend an EV to someone who had a place to plug it in overnight. Then you just totally eliminate the gas station. So all those times that you are at the gas station spending 5 minutes to top off, I’m driving right by without a care in the world.

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

Taking one onto a track for a 1/2 hour session is a no go. If i thought there was anything to this global warming hoaxology, I might get one too.

The guys at Throttle House would tend to disagree with you. This 4 year old video has a Tesla Model 3 Performance competing with an Audi RS3 and a BMW M2 Comp, same day, same driver, same track. Did quite well actually.

https://youtu.be/9Pu9046wX9g?si=SnkjX-A2HBK7gvXA

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

EV's just arent capable of doing what I want a car to do and we've reached the summit as far as ICE emissions are concerned so I'll stick with ICE until the government forces me not to.

It’s very likely that EVs don’t do what YOU need them to do…yet. And for that reason you should not buy one. And you’ll have that choice for a long time to come. Options will be fewer and fewer as time goes on, but more because of OEMs changing their portfolios to be more competitive and profitable, not so much because of government. Most of the OEMs that made strong commitments to EV portfolios did so in 2018 and 2019. That was before the current administration.

[Mark R]

My issue with EVs is not the EV itself, but that the government is shoving them down our throats with legislation, incentives, tax credits, carbon credits, gas guzzler taxes, parking incentives, etc., while never mentioning or downplaying the severe environmental damage caused by their production, the disposal issue, no net "carbon" advantage until way down the road, the sometimes crazy tire consumption and pollution of these heavy vehicles, or the future road damage caused by the extra weight bearing down on the nations roads.

If Elon simply brought them to market, and let the people decide to buy or not, we would have a much less divisive discussion. But because the government is doing as above, EV's are politicized. The EV is intimately associated with a leftist green agenda and the authoritarian politics adjacent to that issue.

EV's seem like good second cars for city and suburban dwellers, to cut down on noise and pollution in their areas. But I won't buy one.