2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

I'm referring to 'Ring times. And I seriously doubt their target was either of the Corvette times. Remember, they said their performance metrics were based on the Ford GT, which does have a 'Ring time. So why no report?

They must have missed it, or you can be sure we would have heard about it. They didn't go all the way over there just to slip and slide in the wet, did they? But they did "participate" in the video.

Oh they did fine. But without dominating number why release them at all. The Camaro can have the Ring. We wouldn't want to take that from you nor start an all out war. 2 good cars with slightly different audiences. That's good for everybody.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I wasn't aware that MPH gets you to the end of the drag strip quicker.



Not denying that but from a dig...

I don't know, maybe I'm just tired of reading the whole 'drivers race' line, but it seems to me that we might as well not even consider ANY performance numbers because ultimately everything rolls its way into that line.

If we can't assume equal drivers when comparing these two (or any two) automobiles, then we are wasting our breath.

Personally, I'd rather take a car that has the ability to trap in the low to mid 120's in a race over another that is more commonly in the mid to high teens with the ability to scrape the 120's range.

We might as well just put everything into the hands of computers and simulate every possible combination of situations.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

I'm referring to 'Ring times. And I seriously doubt their target was either of the Corvette times. Remember, they said their performance metrics were based on the Ford GT, which does have a 'Ring time. So why no report?

They must have missed it, or you can be sure we would have heard about it. They didn't go all the way over there just to slip and slide in the wet, did they? But they did "participate" in the video.

I understand that they didn't release ring times, but that doesn't suddenly mean they didn't achieve the times they were hoping for.

Ford didn't release official 1/4 mile times, and it's not because they couldn't perform.
They didn't release brake performance times, or times around a race track.

Instead, they just chose a different route to create hype.

GM nailed it with their portrayal of the Ring time, and Magnetic suspension.
Ford went for the same 'shock' factor with the 650/600/200 thing.

Personally, and this is certainly just my opinion, I don't care WHAT the GT500 runs at any road course. I can't, won't, would be scared to open this thing up on a road course.

It's enough of a handful for me as it is. First gear pulls like a freight train, and from what I've played with in 2nd, it shows no signs of letting up. (that's 80 mph by the way, and it gets there quite quickly)

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I don't know, maybe I'm just tired of reading the whole 'drivers race' line, but it seems to me that we might as well not even consider ANY performance numbers because ultimately everything rolls its way into that line.

If we can't assume equal drivers when comparing these two (or any two) automobiles, then we are wasting our breath.

Personally, I'd rather take a car that has the ability to trap in the low to mid 120's in a race over another that is more commonly in the mid to high teens with the ability to scrape the 120's range.

We might as well just put everything into the hands of computers and simulate every possible combination of situations.

Equal drivers do not always equate to Evan Smiths or NHRAstockers. I'd agree with your trap assessment, but that only tells potential ET and horsepower. It takes a very good driver to reach that potential and not every Joe is going to be able to reach it no matter how much of his life he wastes perfecting his 60ft. The point I'm trying to get across is that the GT500 is not going to slaughter the ZL1 in the real world where drivers are the main indicator of who is going to win. Plus, you have to combine drivers with less than perfect weather conditions with most tracks not being prepped as well at the tracks as you see most of the hero runs made. I'm not denying that the GT500 will eat the ZL1 in a perfect world probably by a good half a second.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

2ndCamaro - thank you for your thoughts and for your passion for all things Camaro....

- I don't think Al or anyone on the team is being ripped apart by anyone of authority.

Yes - there will always be those who don't particularly like certain people or certain brands..... And there are always those who have their opinions. Some opinions are correct - others are well-intended -- and others miss the mark completely.

For anyone to think that one Company will always dominate is folly - it is very unlikely that this will ever happen. (...in terms of affordable performance cars....)

For many years, our 4th gen F-cars dominated....... and frankly, my PERSONAL opinion is that we should have not have unveiled the ZL1 as early as we did - because I'm quite certain that this forced Ford's hand.

(....and the winner in all of this? Both Brands' enthusiasts as we continually improve the product and the performance of said products!)

Now: Some had a fit when Al posted the note that said something along the lines of "You're welcome --" to Mustang enthusiasts.......but he wasn't wrong. I would doubt that Ford would be producing a 650hp Mustang had the Camaro (and Challenger) not made a comeback......

So - let's get the cars on the road - let's allow some journalists to objectively compare the two using the same driver on the same track.....both a road course and a drag strip........and let's see what the results are. Until that happens, all the talk in the world means nothing.....

Regardless - the ZL1 is one heck-of-a-car: Just ask the man or woman who owns one.

Mustang owners don't have to love it......we hope every one of them will....but it's unlikely!


And -- to my Camaro faithful: If you DO go onto other-branded boards - let's show them some class.


...now ....lemme go feed 'Bro Zeke' another Mustang - he's hungry.....

Excellent post... You are right when you say "We all Win"

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by a_Username

The worst mag time was 12.6 (definitely an outlier) and all the rest were low 12's, which were similar to the times Road and Track and Car and Drive got out of the 2013 GT500. I'm not arguing rather or not the GT500 is noticeably faster in ideal conditions, I'm just arguing against the fact that some are making it out to be something less than a drivers race between the two in the real world. Make no mistake, both of these cars lined up are going to be a driver's race and not the nuclear bomb some on the other side are wanting it to be.

Actually road & track ran a 12.9 with the zl1. That is definitely a horrible time for the zl1, but so is a 12.3 for a 2013 gt500. Listen, i understand what you're getting at, in some situations the zl1 will win against a poorly driven gt500, but the term "drivers race," as it is understood by the majority of the car community, means a close race with similar driving in equal conditions. Comparing best times, average times, and worst times, there is a .5-.7 difference between the two cars as far as the magazines are concerned. 11.6 vs 12.1, 11.9 vs 12.4, 12.3 vs 12.9 are the numbers i used. That is a huge difference in the quarter. I ran 13.3 in my car stock and a few mags ran 13.1-13.3. Now if i said a stock 2005 sti and 2010 ss were a drivers race, this forum would go up in flames, but the difference there is even smaller than the cars this thread is about...

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Oh they did fine. But without dominating number [or matching] why release them at all. The Camaro can have the Ring. We wouldn't want to take that from you nor start an all out war. 2 good cars with slightly different audiences. That's good for everybody.

That doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion, but I'm glad there's at least one voice of reason in the Ford camp.

Boss the most Mustang fun? You have my vote on that. By default, it's clearly the most balanced choice. Now where's Chevrolet's complete counterpart?

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I don't think anyone, well anyone with a level head, faults Mr. O. for making comments defending his car. I think it was more the way he promised that the car would outperform the GT500, and then so many of the Camaro faithful absolutely ran with it.

I know this site isn't dedicated to what the Ford guys think, but I believe we can all agree that there was a LOT of dishing out FROM the ZL1 crew/fans toward the Ford/GT500 crew. Now, admittedly, not everyone took it as well as they should have, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the perceived ego of this site, as well as others affiliated with GM products was off the charts.

Now, that the GT500 has outperformed the ZL1 in nearly every single MEASURABLE statistic, I think you're going to see a lot of revenge trash talking. all of them? are you sure? what about sales?

Either way, I know that to real enthusiasts both of these cars are absolutely awesome, and deserve to be treated with the highest level of respect by their owners/drivers.

I'm looking forward to a decent photo op with a clean ZL1.

See..it's all in your mind.

[93TealCobra]

Come on guys are we really still arguing about this? The thing has already run 11.81 @ 123 mph, on stock rubber its first time out. That's faster than the fastest recorded stock ZL1 run.

It just dynoed at 609 WHP from the factory:



I really don't think that somehow, a car that's 350 pounds heavier and short 80+ horsepower is going to beat the GT500. The GT500 is definitely more towards the Z06 end without the Z07 package performance wise.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

When this happens remember the price of the GT500 with performance pack and the GG tax is moot.

I'm really looking forward to some track comparisons. Hell, I'd buy tickets to this grudge match. They should put it on prime time.

Something I didn't realize until today is that the shelby track pack is $6500 extra. That explains a few things. I was wondering how they could get the HP AND the track ability all for the same price as the zl1.

[97SS]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

That doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion, but I'm glad there's at least one voice of reason in the Ford camp.

Boss the most Mustang fun? You have my vote on that. By default, it's clearly the most balanced choice. Now where's Chevrolet's complete counterpart?

x2 that. I think the Boss 302 is the most bang for your buck, all around car. It is exactly at the border line, of being over kill. Ford did an amazing job with that car for sure...

Nothing like a V8 revving to 7500 rpms.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Equal drivers do not always equate to Evan Smiths or NHRAstockers. I'd agree with your trap assessment, but that only tells potential ET and horsepower. It takes a very good driver to reach that potential and not every Joe is going to be able to reach it no matter how much of his life he wastes perfecting his 60ft. The point I'm trying to get across is that the GT500 is not going to slaughter the ZL1 in the real world where drivers are the main indicator of who is going to win. Plus, you have to combine drivers with less than perfect weather conditions with most tracks not being prepped as well at the tracks as you see most of the hero runs made. I'm not denying that the GT500 will eat the ZL1 in a perfect world probably by a good half a second.

I'm well aware that everyone who goes out and runs is not going to run the best times each and every time out.

What I'm saying is if you're in a race, wouldn't you want to be in the faster car? You mention beating the ZL1 by a half second in a perfect world. What about this world?

ZL1 driver runs 12.4 GT500 could run a 11.9 13.0 to 12.5.. etc..

I get what you're saying that yes, drivers do make a HUGE impact on every aspect of performance.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Um, really? Does that include going out of production?

Fender,

look a little closer, that was a spammer...

[Thyshallsmite]

Soo 2014 i'm guessing will be the last chance for the camaro to fire back before the new regulations come in to play. Unless of course they plan on offering a performance upgrade for the 2012/13