Electric Vehicles

[el ess A]

I still think it's starting to reach a saturation level on sales from the early adopters. And that's part of the sales "slump" or slowdown or whatever you want to call it. Everyone tries to "project" sales based on previous sales and intended demand based on useless-after-one-day surveys of people that may be interested in purchasing. People don't tend to flock to something if they still have looming questions that seemingly go unanswered.

And at least some EV marketing doesn't answer those questions. Or doesn't want to. A very affluent, but miserly, neighbor lady went to look at an EV because she's moving into town to be closer to relatives and she wouldn't have to travel far. She's getting up there in age, so she was considering buying an EV because the dealership said she could save all sorts of money on gas. Her reasoning is her golf cart was electric and she loved the fact she didn't have to buy gas for it. The dealership told her about all the great things of owning an EV. Yet when I asked her about her new garage and if it was set up for an EV charger or at least capable, she said they never mentioned that. After I explained to her that it might cost her $2K-up to install one, she asked me how much gas would that buy for her current car. Can't say the EV dealer lied to her, but obviously didn't tell her things she would need to know/do to make the switch. The holding back of information is the same as not telling the whole truth.

Even with incentives, there's a huge trust factor or even fear factor depending on your glass half full/empty point of view that hasn't been addressed/satisfied for many people to feel comfortable with switching to an EV. And when headlines in the media say the big 3 is waffling a little on EV production, most don't look past the headlines which solidifies a mistrust even further.

There's the dismal economy in general, material shortages, labor shortages, strike hangover, and lots of other obstacles that just compounds the issues. I ponder that it's not so much a glut of EVs sitting on lots, but rather the opposite- hardly anything is on the lots. Can't test drive one, it's already sold before it left the factory. At least around here that is the case. It almost makes you suspect if there IS a car or truck still sitting on the lot not being sold.

[bigd1276]

Originally Posted by mlee

Not one single person complained...

If folks in this thread can't at least post respectfully toward others who may have different views, you will be gone.

Carry on...

I thought the post differentiating the US from the rest of the world was spot on.
Is that being disrespectful?

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by bigd1276

I thought the post differentiating the US from the rest of the world was spot on.
Is that being disrespectful?

No, but name calling and telling other people to gtfo the forums because their view is different from yours is disrespectful. But let's not get into any of there here.

[olrocker]

Ok I promise to be nice……

I think the gist of my post was that the EV market should evolve naturally, as the market demand dictates. Not by policy. And if the market caps at say 10% over the next 10 years, that would give all the car companies in the world a much better spreadsheet to calculate their budgets.

Right now they don’t know how much to spend on what, and worse they might have already spent more on development that they’ll see in return.

Just let the market dictate what they produce, and if the market is so low that they cannot produce EVs in a cost effective manner than either they’ll only be for the rich or car companies will have to change focus.

Hybrids should definitely be revisited now.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by docwra

What I didnt expect is people actually believe they "dont need to try an EV to know they suck", dont consider cheaper, cleaner fuel as a good thing or just cant accept the rest of the world is moving forward with this even if you, on a personal or national level, arent.

Literally ZERO about EV vehicles that's cleaner/cheaper..... the concept that they are is just fictional. Perhaps if we had better sources of energy such as nuclear to provide said energy, it might be a different story.

That said, the current state of EV in the real world is fire hazards, lack of reliability for charging, lack of real world use charging, and most importantly, the lack of legitimate recycling for the EV batteries.

No one in their right mind is dropping 20-25-30k to replace a battery in an EV when they can spend fractions of that to replace an ICE engine.

EVs certainly deserve to be at the table, and certainly we should all be looking for better/more reliable, more renewable sources of energy to drive our vehicles. However, the lack of effort being made to even really consider Hydrogen while pushing for these very dangerous EV cars is insanity.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by olrocker

...

Hybrids should definitely be revisited now.

Yes! Hybrid ARE THE BEST ANSWER FOR NOW!

Full EV only IS NOT! Sure...make some full EVs, but we should not be looking to convert an entire brand line of vehicles to all electric (looking at you gm). Hybrids can work FOR EVERYONE and will slash the use of gas and carbon emissions immediately. Develop the battery tech through the manufacturing of hybrids.

The argument full EV against range anxiety is always "well how often do you need to travel more than a few hundred miles anyways?" Let's take that further and just do hybrids with small batteries with ranges of 40 - 60 miles. It would still achieve the goal of zero or near zero emissions in daily use and no range anxiety at all. It would work for all types of vehicles also no matter the category.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

No, but name calling and telling other people to gtfo the forums because their view is different from yours is disrespectful. But let's not get into any of there here.

Exactly... plus post history and infraction history others can't see.

This thread is all about 2 different views so carry on with the debate... we all learn from it... but it's not going to degrade into personal attacks.

...

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Yes! Hybrid ARE THE BEST ANSWER FOR NOW!

Agree 100%, but since that is the common sense solution it will never happen... common sense now being a superpower which few possess.

[0stones0]

Originally Posted by docwra

I told you, Im on this forum as I own a Camaro.
Im on this thread as I thought some actual, real life experience of EV ownership might counterbalance the inaccuracies being posted, I probably should have realised I was wasting my time when people started arguing with actual sales figures

What I didnt expect is people actually believe they "dont need to try an EV to know they suck", dont consider cheaper, cleaner fuel as a good thing or just cant accept the rest of the world is moving forward with this even if you, on a personal or national level, arent.

Maybe youre right and the USA just isnt ever going to get the EV thing. Maybe the rest of the world will realise our mistake and swap cars for pickup trucks, who knows?

I posted a “real life experience “ …

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showp...postcount=1267

What say you? …

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by docwra

Im on this thread as I thought some actual, real life experience of EV ownership might counterbalance the inaccuracies being posted

Some of those inaccuracies are actually accurate for their areas. For example, try driving from NYC to LA with an EV - you're most likely not going to get to use the shortest route.

Where you live (state), the city you live in, and where you tend to drive are all factors that dictate EV life. It may be inaccurate where you live/use it, but it could be a reality for those elsewhere.

Obviously, if something is 1000% wrong, we have to call it out (whether we want to or not). However, we also have to remember that both things can be true at the same time depending on factors...

Sorry, I meant to add this earlier and just realized I forgot to click submit lol

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Yes! Hybrid ARE THE BEST ANSWER FOR NOW!

Full EV only IS NOT!

okay, that solves some of the range anxiety and charging availability issues...

What does it do to affordability with two powertrains in a vehicle and a complicated electronic setup to seamlessly switch between the two? 25% increase in MSRP? Reduced reliablity with twice as much stuff to go wrong? Would all the OEMs still have to pay Elan/Tesla for doing nothing to obtain some imaginary carbon credits? What do you do with car with a hybrid car with ICE that goes for 20 years and 250k miles, when the hybrid battery craps out after 8-10 years? You get an ICE car's reliability with an EV's accelerated depreciation schedule? (sign me up! ...or not)

Affordability is already becoming a real problem.

Hopefully an American OEM reads the current conditions and makes few modestly priced sedans and hatchbacks again. Basic ICE transportation, sub $30k. We'll probably never see a full size truck under $45k again. The regulatory state is trying to limit the mobility of the middle class while demonizing it for "ruining the planet".

[docwra]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Literally ZERO about EV vehicles that's cleaner/cheaper..... the concept that they are is just fictional. Perhaps if we had better sources of energy such as nuclear to provide said energy, it might be a different story.

Ill forgive you for not reading the last 92 pages in full , but at the moment 30% of energy production in the UK (where I charge my EV) is solar, wind or hydro, Norway is currently > 98%.
Its about 10% of the cost to fill a similar sized car with gas and renewable power is cheaper to produce in general, I have friends with solar panels and power banks that are effectively charging their cars for free.

Originally Posted by 0stones0

I posted a “real life experience “ …

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showp...postcount=1267

What say you? …

I say 2 things: I struggle to believe Amazon spec vehicles that run out of charge before they can complete their deliveries - seems they have a 150 mile range, surely you can plan that in?
That said I can totally accept the drivers would prefer ICE vans but they arent the guys paying to fuel them or attempting to make their company environmentally friendly, the screen controls and braking arent an EV issue.
FWIW the Royal Mail here have transitioned to EVs and logistic companies are adopting them too.

[0stones0]

Originally Posted by docwra

I say 2 things: I struggle to believe Amazon spec vehicles that run out of charge before they can complete their deliveries - seems they have a 150 mile range, surely you can plan that in?
That said I can totally accept the drivers would prefer ICE vans but they arent the guys paying to fuel them or attempting to make their company environmentally friendly, the screen controls and braking arent an EV issue.
FWIW the Royal Mail here have transitioned to EVs and logistic companies are adopting them too.

You struggle to believe? … nuff said.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by docwra

Ill forgive you for not reading the last 92 pages in full , but at the moment 30% of energy production in the UK (where I charge my EV) is solar, wind or hydro, Norway is currently > 98%.
Its about 10% of the cost to fill a similar sized car with gas and renewable power is cheaper to produce in general, I have friends with solar panels and power banks that are effectively charging their cars for free.

I wasn't referring to the ways to generate electricity, I was referring to the vehicles themselves. Further, you're comparing one country that's basically an island and another which has about the same amount of people living in it as there are living in Los Angeles.

It's great that we are finding things that work in areas, but in general, it's not. That's the truly bigger issue. I've long said I don't understand why new buildings, especially warehouses, aren't required to have solar panels on the roofs. I'm also at a loss as to why we're not using solar panel style shingles on homes in deserts and other places...