GM to shutdown Factories - Page 9

DenverTaco07 · 11-29-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

More reliable than exactly what?

Pontiac Aztek
Chevy Citation

hey, you know what, I think it's fantastic that you were (are?) a proud and skilled GM employee and that you have found for yourself very reliable domestic vehicles, it's just that your own experiences aren't necessarily statistically true, nor or my own or any individuals'. Like I had said, I stayed away from all domestics for most of my life based on all the domestics my parent's owned (I'm only 42) until my first two 2017 Chevy's and they are both fine cars and right now, I would not call any particular nation's cars "trash", at least none that sell here in the US.

396ssrat · 11-29-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Pontiac Aztek

Precursor to a Prius.

DenverTaco07 · 11-29-2018, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Precursor to a Prius.

Prius is trash because in your opinion...? they don't have an ICE, they fall apart, they what?

and who in their right mind designed that Aztek, holy crap that thing is ugly as sin.

protovack · 11-29-2018, 05:25 PM

This thread has come to an end.

My final thoughts--

GM. A company with a long, storied history. There have been bad times. There have been good. I think right now they are on a roll and turning out some of the best vehicles they've ever made. I don't care if a Korean or Mexican or American put the parts together. It's something young people can do instead of crime or drugs and Mexico REALLY benefits from economic investment in manufacturing there. I fully support Mexican auto manufacturing as long as the build quality is excellent. I also fully support USA manufacturing and hope GM continues to have a presence here. Thanks to all for the stimulating discussion.

DenverTaco07 · 11-29-2018, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protovack

This thread has come to an end.

nah, we got this till at least 800 posts.

kttxz06 · 11-29-2018, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

No...incorrect. Trump has run hundreds of business entities. He turned 3million into $3billion. Its like turning 1000 into $100,000. Now....out of running 100s of entities not having some failures is a bit naïve don't you think? Its like a Pro. Black jack player, they know exactly what they are doing they also know they will lose a certain percentage but they also know they will win a hell of a lot more that they will lose. They key is you gotta play to win. Trump is a player, and he plays to win. The fact that he doesn't win every hand makes him a loser? His bank account proves you wrong.

Boom. Exactly. You have to love the people who point out his failures, but don't ever recognize how fkn loaded he is. Trump wins and that's all there is to it.

DenverTaco07 · 11-29-2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Boom. Exactly. You have to love the people who point out his failures, but don't ever recognize how fkn loaded he is. Trump wins and that's all there is to it.

maybe it's just me, but my level of respect for someone isn't dependent on the size of their bank account. Can't someone be rich and despicable?

flaps100 · 11-29-2018, 05:53 PM

Now while I wish people could keep there jobs at GM, and while I wish Americans and the World would buy more Chevy and Buick cars and especially more Camaro's. :-)

And I also understand GM is to blame for many of there own problems, the re-design of the 2019 Camaro is not going to sell more Camaros, that's for sure. The SUV's they offer are not as nice looking nor very nice inside nor do they have the same power as most Ford SUV's and I am not a Ford guy.

Absolutely the worst advertising I have ever watched or read on there vehicles ever. They need to hire Dodge for that part of the issue.

You also have to look at the Auto Workers themselves, Unions and Workers together are making the wage and benefits cost to GM way to high. $38.00 an hour for older Auto Workers is a little high, don't cha think ?

Hard to compete with Japanese and Even some German vehicles at that high a workforce cost.

Also read in the Forbes article that GM offered 18,000 workers buy-outs, which only 2200 took. So they offer a buy out, isn't the writing on the wall, didn't the employees get the hint there could be a big change coming ?

And again, the design of some of these GM offerings is lacking, they do a survey and a descent amount of Cruse Potential Buyers would like a factory roof rack on the hatchback model, does GM offer that on the 2018 or 2019, of course not. Sending people to buy elsewhere. I have always had GM, Dodge, some Fords 60 plus cars in my life and while I want to support American Mfg if I can, I don't want to buy an inferior product for more money. We were recently at the International Auto Show and hands down if you want a 4 door mid priced sedan, Honda Wins, you want a lower cost 2 door or 4 door, Honda wins, much nicer looking inside and out and much nicer and mean a lot nicer interiors as well as based on data everywhere better designed and better built. SUV's Lincolns shame GM, Fords are even nicer with more power and nicer interiors across the models.

It is what it is at this point, they need to do what they need to do, so in the future they don't disappear completely from the market.

Flaps

Norm Peterson · 11-29-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Prius is trash because in your opinion...? they don't have an ICE, they fall apart, they what?

For starters, Prius has an image that's almost directly opposite to what most performance-car enthusiasts value. It may be very good at what it does (assuming you can get along with the way it wants to do that job), while being a pretty good synonym for 'unexciting'.

My second-oldest granddaughter has one. I have to hope that her unexpected education in low cornering grip tires stays with her (no human injuries, fortunately, don't know about any mechanical ones).

Quote:

and who in their right mind designed that Aztek, holy crap that thing is ugly as sin.

No idea, and my question always was 'who in their right mind ever even considered signing off on it for production'. I expect false starts within the design studio (that the general public never sees), almost none at all at the go for production point (Aztec, Airflow, Edsel).

But I can see where at least one generation of Prius cribbed too heavily from Aztec pictures and styling notes.

Norm

Norm Peterson · 11-29-2018, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

maybe it's just me, but my level of respect for someone isn't dependent on the size of their bank account. Can't someone be rich and despicable?

You should still respect the business acumen even if you hate the guy on a personal/personality level.

Norm

Chazzz · 11-29-2018, 06:21 PM

Play nice boys... or the playground will be closed......

396ssrat · 11-29-2018, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Pontiac Aztek
Chevy Citation

hey, you know what, I think it's fantastic that you were (are?) a proud and skilled GM employee and that you have found for yourself very reliable domestic vehicles, it's just that your own experiences aren't necessarily statistically true, nor or my own or any individuals'. Like I had said, I stayed away from all domestics for most of my life based on all the domestics my parent's owned (I'm only 42) until my first two 2017 Chevy's and they are both fine cars and right now, I would not call any particular nation's cars "trash", at least none that sell here in the US.

My son is your age. He got on the Honda kick in his earlier years too. He now drives an '18 Colorado for his business. He likes it. I understand how the Import trend got started. Women like the gadgets and being taken care of on the service drive at the dealers when they had problems. GM still lacks in the "take care of your existing customer" area. Rathen than spend a couple hundred they'd rather lose a future customer.

vtirocz · 11-29-2018, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Prius is trash because in your opinion...? they don't have an ICE, they fall apart, they what?

and who in their right mind designed that Aztek, holy crap that thing is ugly as sin.

Tom Peters designed the Pontiac Aztek! Yes, the same guy who designed our beloved 6th gen Camaro and C7 Corvette!

https://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-d...pontiac-aztek/

Also, the Prius does have an ICE. It's a hybrid.

DaveC113 · 11-29-2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaps100

You also have to look at the Auto Workers themselves, Unions and Workers together are making the wage and benefits cost to GM way to high. $38.00 an hour for older Auto Workers is a little high, don't cha think ?

A little, yes, but if this was all GM had to pay to get work done they'd probably be in great shape. Costs for pensions and medical care make the true costs much, much higher.

Also, as a completely neutral observation, we have no idea exactly what Trump is worth nor what he inherited. He is the only president who has refused to release his income taxes. I'd also consider that there are far more important measures of success than net worth, at least imo. You can't take it with you and we're not alive for that long.

11-29-2018, 05:53 PM	#120
flaps100 Drives: 2017 Camaro 2.0 RS Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 212	Forbes Article & more Now while I wish people could keep there jobs at GM, and while I wish Americans and the World would buy more Chevy and Buick cars and especially more Camaro's. :-) And I also understand GM is to blame for many of there own problems, the re-design of the 2019 Camaro is not going to sell more Camaros, that's for sure. The SUV's they offer are not as nice looking nor very nice inside nor do they have the same power as most Ford SUV's and I am not a Ford guy. Absolutely the worst advertising I have ever watched or read on there vehicles ever. They need to hire Dodge for that part of the issue. You also have to look at the Auto Workers themselves, Unions and Workers together are making the wage and benefits cost to GM way to high. $38.00 an hour for older Auto Workers is a little high, don't cha think ? Hard to compete with Japanese and Even some German vehicles at that high a workforce cost. Also read in the Forbes article that GM offered 18,000 workers buy-outs, which only 2200 took. So they offer a buy out, isn't the writing on the wall, didn't the employees get the hint there could be a big change coming ? And again, the design of some of these GM offerings is lacking, they do a survey and a descent amount of Cruse Potential Buyers would like a factory roof rack on the hatchback model, does GM offer that on the 2018 or 2019, of course not. Sending people to buy elsewhere. I have always had GM, Dodge, some Fords 60 plus cars in my life and while I want to support American Mfg if I can, I don't want to buy an inferior product for more money. We were recently at the International Auto Show and hands down if you want a 4 door mid priced sedan, Honda Wins, you want a lower cost 2 door or 4 door, Honda wins, much nicer looking inside and out and much nicer and mean a lot nicer interiors as well as based on data everywhere better designed and better built. SUV's Lincolns shame GM, Fords are even nicer with more power and nicer interiors across the models. It is what it is at this point, they need to do what they need to do, so in the future they don't disappear completely from the market. Flaps

11-29-2018, 05:25 PM	#116
protovack Drives: 2019 2LT 2.0T M6 Riverside Blue Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: WA Posts: 847	This thread has come to an end. My final thoughts-- GM. A company with a long, storied history. There have been bad times. There have been good. I think right now they are on a roll and turning out some of the best vehicles they've ever made. I don't care if a Korean or Mexican or American put the parts together. It's something young people can do instead of crime or drugs and Mexico REALLY benefits from economic investment in manufacturing there. I fully support Mexican auto manufacturing as long as the build quality is excellent. I also fully support USA manufacturing and hope GM continues to have a presence here. Thanks to all for the stimulating discussion.

11-29-2018, 06:21 PM	#123
Chazzz Drives: 2018 1LT RS V6 A8 Convertible Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: USA Posts: 497	Play nice boys... or the playground will be closed......