Pontiac coming back?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Yeah but that’s all based off this new design.

My point was to keep the Stingray the Stingray.

The Stingray literally IS the Stingray. That’s the whole point. It is the entry level “affordable” Corvette. Everything above it is special purposed.

Stingray base price is $68,300. So, yes a pretty decent increase from the 2020 launch price of $59,995, but still in the affordable range as far as sports cars are concerned. My Camaro stickered over $56k 4 years earlier and V8 Camaros (if you can fin one) start in the low $50k range and go above $70k.

Sure you can option the crap out of a Stingray and get above $100k (3LT convertible Z51 package with competition seats and carbon fiber content will get you over $100k in a hurry) but you don’t have to. You can still get a Corvette Stingray for under $70k.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Zora is coming and it will be a beast. It will be a magnitude of change above the C8 variants currently on the street. So in a since, there already is a Corvette portfolio bordering on a sub-brand.

• Stingray: base version priced to be accessible to traditional Corvette buyers. It can, however, easily be optioned out of the reach of the average car buyer.
• E-Ray: Wide-body, pushrod based with front e-motor to provide traction for ridiculous acceleration.
• Z06: Wide-body track beast with a sophisticated flat-planed DOHC.
• ZR1: Still yet to come. Most think it will be a wide-body twin-turbo DOHC, basically a boosted Z06. I believe it will save the twin turbos for Zora and instead add a front e-motor to solve the one lingering problem with the Z06. Traction. We’ll see soon enough.
• Zora: Still yet to come. This will be all the goodies wrapped in one package. Wide-body. Flat-planed DOHC, twin-turbos, front e-motor. 1,000 plus hp.

Whether or not a sedan and/or a crossover (think Purosanque) get added to the portfolio is yet to be seen.

This sort of parallels the Challenger portfolio that went from base V6 all the way up to Demon 170 and priced accordingly. Or the Mustang lineup which goes from EcoBoost all thee way up to Darkhorse with each step priced (or overpriced) accordingly. But Corvette has a higher starting point and higher priced top ends. Given that we’re talking Corvette relative to Challenger and Mustang that should come as no surprise.

I thought the Corvette SUV was a done deal.

When it comes out, for max entertainment go to the corvette forum to take in all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I thought the Corvette SUV was a done deal.

When it comes out, for max entertainment go to the corvette forum to take in all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth

We still show it in our forecast, but moved out a bit in terms of timing. Not a lot of discussion on it in the inner circles. It’s in a zone where if GM wants to cancel it, nobody would ever know that it was ever really in the plan.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The Stingray literally IS the Stingray. That’s the whole point. It is the entry level “affordable” Corvette. Everything above it is special purposed.

Stingray base price is $68,300. So, yes a pretty decent increase from the 2020 launch price of $59,995, but still in the affordable range as far as sports cars are concerned. My Camaro stickered over $56k 4 years earlier and V8 Camaros (if you can fin one) start in the low $50k range and go above $70k.

Sure you can option the crap out of a Stingray and get above $100k (3LT convertible Z51 package with competition seats and carbon fiber content will get you over $100k in a hurry) but you don’t have to. You can still get a Corvette Stingray for under $70k.

That’s not what I mean. My point was to continue the front engine/manual gearbox Corvette as the Stingray and call the C8 the Zora.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by olrocker

That’s not what I mean. My point was to continue the front engine/manual gearbox Corvette as the Stingray and call the C8 the Zora.

There's no way there was ever going to be two versions of the Corvette, unless one is an SUV.

Time to move on. For anybody who wants whatever they consider a "real" Corvette (a fair number of C1/C2 guys say nothing past 1967 qualifies), there are plenty out there so it's not a zero sum game. Enjoy what you enjoy and be happy for the people who enjoy the C8.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

That’s not what I mean. My point was to continue the front engine/manual gearbox Corvette as the Stingray and call the C8 the Zora.

That would require two architectures to support about 60,000 units of sales. Never gonna happen. Closest we came to that was considering a modified Y2SC platform for next gen Solstice / Sky. That discussion lasted about a month. That was even before decisions to drop Pontiac an Saturn.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

There's no way there was ever going to be two versions of the Corvette, unless one is an SUV.

Time to move on. For anybody who wants whatever they consider a "real" Corvette (a fair number of C1/C2 guys say nothing past 1967 qualifies), there are plenty out there so it's not a zero sum game. Enjoy what you enjoy and be happy for the people who enjoy the C8.

That’s the problem. With everything. If we don’t like something or don’t agree with it we’re supposed to just shut up and let it go.

GM deserves to know people aren’t happy. Of course we can buy used. GM lost us as new customers for good.

The old “shut up and let it go”. Great psychology.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by olrocker

That’s the problem. With everything. If we don’t like something or don’t agree with it we’re supposed to just shut up and let it go.

GM deserves to know people aren’t happy. Of course we can buy used. GM lost us as new customers for good.

The old “shut up and let it go”. Great psychology.

Except the people who count, the people who want to buy a new Corvette, are very happy. Which makes GM happy, thrilled even.

Look, I understand where you are coming from but the market has spoken. Accept that. You can't go through life tilting at windmills.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by olrocker

That’s the problem. With everything. If we don’t like something or don’t agree with it we’re supposed to just shut up and let it go.

GM deserves to know people aren’t happy. Of course we can buy used. GM lost us as new customers for good.

The old “shut up and let it go”. Great psychology.

I wasn't going to dip into this, but on the other hand I could not help but to agree with this on some points.

I might have been one of those buyers of a new Corvette Stingray. Instead, I chose to continue my patronage (perhaps for the last time) on one of Chevrolet's remaining lines that are excellent. This model combines the progress made in technology and has added a few performance goodies developed for the last Camaro generation. The regular pickup and SUV lines have managed to retain (how much depends on each buyer) a visage of Chevrolet's heritage that some of us long timers recognize and appreciate.

However, I feel that Chevrolet is losing its battle in the marketplace, oddly enough, by blindly following the trend. None of their cross-over and EV vehicles show a mark of individuality. One vehicle from both classes looks too much like the others offered by each car maker. I don't feel that there is anything that is distinguishing about Chevrolet's current line-up. Buyers can easily buy from any of Chevrolet's competitors, and at a savings. In terms of technology, as we all know it, GM is still the industry leader. At this writing, however, it isn't translating into sales or genre leadership by any of GM's brands.

I would take my sentiments as that, with a grain of salt. If Chevrolet and GM intend to remain in the market, then they will need to reach for and convince its past customers that there is still liveliness in its brands.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

That’s the problem. With everything. If we don’t like something or don’t agree with it we’re supposed to just shut up and let it go.

GM deserves to know people aren’t happy. Of course we can buy used. GM lost us as new customers for good.

The old “shut up and let it go”. Great psychology.

Pretty much. Sometimes accepting the outcome and moving on is the necessary next step.

I'm pretty sure a bunch of people within GM knew a few people weren't going to be happy about the direction of the Pontiac, or the Corvette, or the Camaro, and they made their choices anyway. We can choose to be future customers or not...that's the extent of anything owed or deserved in these situations.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by lbls1

I wasn't going to dip into this, but on the other hand I could not help but to agree with this on some points.

I might have been one of those buyers of a new Corvette Stingray. Instead, I chose to continue my patronage (perhaps for the last time) on one of Chevrolet's remaining lines that are excellent. This model combines the progress made in technology and has added a few performance goodies developed for the last Camaro generation. The regular pickup and SUV lines have managed to retain (how much depends on each buyer) a visage of Chevrolet's heritage that some of us long timers recognize and appreciate.

However, I feel that Chevrolet is losing its battle in the marketplace, oddly enough, by blindly following the trend. None of their cross-over and EV vehicles show a mark of individuality. One vehicle from both classes looks too much like the others offered by each car maker. I don't feel that there is anything that is distinguishing about Chevrolet's current line-up. Buyers can easily buy from any of Chevrolet's competitors, and at a savings. In terms of technology, as we all know it, GM is still the industry leader. At this writing, however, it isn't translating into sales or genre leadership by any of GM's brands.

I would take my sentiments as that, with a grain of salt. If Chevrolet and GM intend to remain in the market, then they will need to reach for and convince its past customers that there is still liveliness in its brands.

Exactly!!

People don’t want a car when it looks like every other car out there. Market share for GM has fallen off a cliff, partly (not completely but definitely partly) due to their “let’s make what everyone else makes” attitude.

This is the market!

The market has spoken!

People want boring SUVs that all look the same as every other car company!

People want the Corvette to look and drive like a Ferrari!

But if they just made their own cars uniquely American, uniquely GM, and put some passion and looked back on their own history for inspiration, they would be selling like gang busters.

Why? Because people WANT them. They run to their nearest Chevy dealer to order a car that looks like something made by GENERAL MOTORS.

Not general motors

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by olrocker

That’s the problem. With everything. If we don’t like something or don’t agree with it we’re supposed to just shut up and let it go.

GM deserves to know people aren’t happy. Of course we can buy used. GM lost us as new customers for good.

The old “shut up and let it go”. Great psychology.

Adhering to the strict definition some fans want GM to adhere to before they can call it a Corvette would be the death of the car. Given how some here view the thought of an EV Camaro( even one in concept being a performance coupe, but just as an EV over ICE), I think that is how some people prefer it. The nameplate dying vs evolving to stay successful in the marketplace.

That is what the round taillights, flip up headlight, front engine and stick and any deviations from that it isn't a Corvette crowd would lead the Corvette to. Eventually that customer base will die off and the new generation views Corvette like Oldsmobile leading to its demise.

I saw your post about the round taillights and flip up headlights. But I remember the discussion when the C6 and C7 debuted. I saw the same outrage as the C8 caused. Not a real Corvette. Same crap put out by the fanbase because their definition of a 'Vette was flip up headlights at the time of C6 debut and round taillights at C7 debut.

Now C8 has the not a Corvette because it isn't front engine following it.

Rigid definitions don't lead to the survival of the nameplate. The car needs to be able to evolve to survive.

I am not telling you to shut up because you prefer the look of the front engine 'Vette's. You absolutely can.

But, I have yet to hear how to keep Corvette successful in the marketplace as a front engine car. Your suggestions was already done. Moving the last few cylinders back would not drastically increase traction to the rear wheels like going mid-engine did. The platform was tapped out. The C8 has ensured the Corvette's survival with the younger crowd.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

• Stingray: base version priced to be accessible to traditional Corvette buyers. It can, however, easily be optioned out of the reach of the average car buyer.
• E-Ray: Wide-body, pushrod based with front e-motor to provide traction for ridiculous acceleration.
• Z06: Wide-body track beast with a sophisticated flat-planed DOHC.
• ZR1: Still yet to come. Most think it will be a wide-body twin-turbo DOHC, basically a boosted Z06. I believe it will save the twin turbos for Zora and instead add a front e-motor to solve the one lingering problem with the Z06. Traction. We’ll see soon enough.
• Zora: Still yet to come. This will be all the goodies wrapped in one package. Wide-body. Flat-planed DOHC, twin-turbos, front e-motor. 1,000 plus hp.

I am one to think ZR1 is going to be turbocharged.

Too many signs pointing to it.

• 1. GM own parts catalog containing parts for an "LT7". If ZR1 was LT6+electric motor, LT7 wouldn't be getting referenced so soon. The parts in the catalog mention, "turbo".
• 2. Spyshot videos don't have it sounding like an LT6. Still sounds FPC, but definitely a different tone. It's not simply an LT6 under the hood.
• 3. GM at a dealer meeting showed off a camo'd ZR1 with the teaser saying along the lines( paraphrasing) that the performance will be turbocharged or something along those lines with the turbocharged term in it

https://www.facebook.com/1351287040/...2461772041650/

[Evergreen6]

Published in vette-vues.com. 2023 production blew former years out of the water except for the 22 units more sold in 1979. The C8 appears to be doing more than alright.

Generation Corvette Model Year Total Production
C8 2023 53,785
C8 2022 34,510
C8 2021 26,216
C8 2020 20,368
C7 2019 34,822
C7 2018 9,686
C7 2017 22,801
C7 2016 40,689
C7 2015 34,240
C7 2014 37,288
C6 2013 13,466
C6 2012 11,647
C6 2011 13,596
C6 2010 12,194
C6 2009 16,956
C6 2008 35,310
C6 2007 40,561
C6 2006 34,021
C6 2005 37,372
C5 2004 34,064
C5 2003 35,469
C5 2002 35,767
C5 2001 35,627
C5 2000 33,682
C5 1999 33,270
C5 1998 31,084
C5 1997 9,752
C4 1996 21,536
C4 1995 20,742
C4 1994 23,330
C4 1993 21,590
C4 1992 20,479
C4 1991 20,639
C4 1990 23,646
C4 1989 26,412
C4 1988 22,789
C4 1987 30,632
C4 1986 35,109
C4 1985 39,729
C4 1984 51,547
C3 1982 25,407
C3 1981 40,606
C3 1980 40,614
C3 1979 53,807
C3 1978 46,776
C3 1977 49,213
C3 1976 46,558
C3 1975 38,465
C3 1974 37,502
C3 1973 30,464
C3 1972 27,004
C3 1971 21,801
C3 1970 17,316
C3 1969 38,762
C3 1968 28,566
C2 1967 22,940
C2 1966 27,720
C2 1965 23,562
C2 1964 22,229
C2 1963 21,513
C1 1962 14,531
C1 1961 10,939
C1 1960 10,261
C1 1959 9,670
C1 1958 9,168
C1 1957 6,339
C1 1956 3,467
C1 1955 700
C1 1954 3,460
C1 1953 300