Ford anounces new 2017 F-150 RAPTOR: Twin Turbo V6, 500lbs lighter, 10 speed

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Medisin you and I will not see eye to eye on this. I have agreed with the points you have made about GM vs FoMoCo as whole. you continually keep saying I can't compare the Ford Line of FoMoCo to chevrolet as a line of GM.

So just want to make sure I understand your logic then.

Toyota brand of Toyota can only be compared with GM as a whole
Honda brand of Honda can only be compared with GM as a whole
Nissan brand of Nissan can only be compared with GM as a whole

Expedition sales can not be compared to Tahoe sales, but Tahoe, Escalade, Yukon.

If RAM Pickups outsold Silverado in a month it wouldn't count bc you have to add Sierra sales to it right?

Best selling truck doesn't mean anything to me. I like good debates like this when work is dead as it passes the time. You are one who likes facts and numbers to prove your point. I have listed my facts of the F-series vs Silverado, Sierra. The segment it competes in.

I love a healthy debate. So everyone is okay lumping together all the pickups FoMoCo makes under the "F-series" moniker, despite how different these trucks are, with prices ranging from $25,420 - $69,825. But it isn't fare to compare this to all the pickups GM makes under various monikers ranging from $20,125 - $64,475??

February 2015 Pickup Sales:
GM: 69,628
Ford: 55,236
FCA: 31,298

[shaffe]

I totally understand what you are saying Medisin and as before I have agreed with your point and even countered my own point with if you want to call what Ford advertises a technicality go ahead lol. GM as a whole has sold more pick ups, what they have not done, is had a single nameplate outsell F-series. If GM wants to have a advertising campaign saying they have sold more trucks than any other company and include all trucks go right ahead they would be right!

What Ford says is best selling truck. They are saying that their nameplate of their full size truck line has not been outsold by any other nameplate in 30 + years. They are 100% correct in saying this. Silverado has not outsold F-series. Sierra has not outsold F-Series. RAM has not outsold F-series. That is what they are saying.

Ranger was never included in F-series sales when it was still around, just as Colorado sales shouldn't be lumped with Silverado sales.

just as Lincoln Mark LT sales were never lumped into F-Series sales.


The one thing I still do not get is you keep trying to lump Ford BRAND into Ford Motor Company as a whole. Here is our exact same argument with a different spin

If I said Explorer was best selling midsize SUV in Feb, would you counter with Traverse, Arcadia and Enclave outsold it so no it wasnt. You are comparing a whole corporation to a single brand's nameplate.

and again I will ask

Can we not compare Toyota Brand of Toyota Motor Co to Chevy?
Can we not compare Nissan Brand of Nissan Motor Co to Chevy
Can we not compare Honda brand of Honda motors to Chevy

Here is another way of looking at it:

Tacoma has been the best selling midsize truck in a while correct? Even if the Colorado and Canyon combined outsell the Tacoma, Tacoma would still be the best selling midsize truck

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Tacoma has been the best selling midsize truck in a while correct? Even if the Colorado and Canyon combined outsell the Tacoma, Tacoma would still be the best selling midsize truck

Yes, because I have a Tacoma. Once I purchased said Tacoma, I put my blinders on and ignored anything else the world was trying to tell me.

How did I do?

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by shaffe

What Ford says is best selling truck. They are saying that their nameplate of their full size truck line has not been outsold by any other nameplate in 30 + years. They are 100% correct in saying this. Silverado has not outsold F-series. Sierra has not outsold F-Series. RAM has not outsold F-series. That is what they are saying.

I just don't see the relevance in calling a "series" of trucks the best selling truck considering they lump every single pickup FoMoCo sells into one "series" no matter how diverse in function or price they are.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Ranger was never included in F-series sales when it was still around, just as Colorado sales shouldn't be lumped with Silverado sales.

And where is the Ranger now? No, of course Colorado would not be combined with Silverado sales, just like Raptor would not be combined with F-550 sales, right? Oh, wait. If Ford does bring back the Ranger, they'll call it the F-050 just so they can lump it in with F-series!

Originally Posted by shaffe

just as Lincoln Mark LT sales were never lumped into F-Series sales.

And where is the Mark LT now?

Originally Posted by shaffe

The one thing I still do not get is you keep trying to lump Ford BRAND into Ford Motor Company as a whole.

At one point FoMoCo consisted of Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, and Volvo. Mulally stripped everything down to "One Ford" which looks like this:

Percentage of total US sales 2014
FoMoCo: Ford 96%, Lincoln 4%
GM: Chevrolet 69%, GMC 17%, Buick 8%, Cadillac 6%

So yes, FoMoCo and Ford are synonymous. Lincoln is a rounding error

Originally Posted by shaffe

If I said Explorer was best selling midsize SUV in Feb, would you counter with Traverse, Arcadia and Enclave outsold it so no it wasnt. You are comparing a whole corporation to a single brand's nameplate.

As above, FoMoCo sell all of their midsize SUV's under one name. GM sells all of their midsize SUV's under 3 names. GM sells more midsize SUV's than FoMoCo.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Can we not compare Toyota Brand of Toyota Motor Co to Chevy?
Can we not compare Nissan Brand of Nissan Motor Co to Chevy
Can we not compare Honda brand of Honda motors to Chevy

These are Japanese companies that match up in certain segments but not nearly the direct head-to-head competitors that Ford and GM are domestically. Toyota would match up to GM and VAG on the global scale where Ford is a second-tier player.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Tacoma has been the best selling midsize truck in a while correct? Even if the Colorado and Canyon combined outsell the Tacoma, Tacoma would still be the best selling midsize truck

That's a cute jingle and all but if GM sold more midsize pickups under 11 different nameplates then it's still a fail for ToMoCo. Saying "X model is the best selling" doesn't directly correlate to sales success for companies this large and diverse.

I would love to see a breakdown of "F-series" by model (F-150, Raptor, etc.) I suspect F-150 outsells Sierra 1500. I'm curious about the larger trucks though.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

I just don't see the relevance in calling a "series" of trucks the best selling truck considering they lump every single pickup FoMoCo sells into one "series" no matter how diverse in function or price they are.

I get that, I really do lol. F-series is all their full size trucks, just like every full size Chevy is a Silverado. A silverado W/T is totally different than a fully loaded 3500 Crew Cab diesel dually but its still a Silverado right? A 1500 Denali Crew Cab is totally different in price and function than a 3500 chassis cab, but its still a Sierra.

I agree with you but that is the way it is lumped together.

And where is the Ranger now? No, of course Colorado would not be combined with Silverado sales, just like Raptor would not be combined with F-550 sales, right? Oh, wait. If Ford does bring back the Ranger, they'll call it the F-050 just so they can lump it in with F-series!

The ranger died because ford began to neglect it and it was getting as pricey as a F-150 so they killed it

But you are the one who is lumping Colorado sales into Silverado sales. you are also lumping sierra and canyon sales into those. that is the point we are debating. This is a sales debate about what nameplate outsells what that is all. Because GM seperates them into two distinctive brands their sales numbers are not combined.

I would guess if the ranger came back it would be a F-100 hahaha

And where is the Mark LT now?

They were not selling well, so Ford created the Platinum trim level which would be the "classy" trim to compete with the Denali.

At one point FoMoCo consisted of Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, and Volvo. Mulally stripped everything down to "One Ford" which looks like this:

Percentage of total US sales 2014
FoMoCo: Ford 96%, Lincoln 4%
GM: Chevrolet 69%, GMC 17%, Buick 8%, Cadillac 6%

So yes, FoMoCo and Ford are synonymous. Lincoln is a rounding error

YES Lincoln is a disappoint but Ford Motor Company is still compromised of 2 different brands Ford and Lincoln. hypothetically if buick and GMC ever died and it was just Chevy and Cadillac would you say Chevy is GM ?

As above, FoMoCo sell all of their midsize SUV's under one name. GM sells all of their midsize SUV's under 3 names. GM sells more midsize SUV's than FoMoCo.

Yes totally agree GM sells more midsize SUVs, but what vehicle is the best selling in the segment?

the Explorer.

These are Japanese companies that match up in certain segments but not nearly the direct head-to-head competitors that Ford and GM are domestically. Toyota would match up to GM and VAG on the global scale where Ford is a second-tier player.

Toyota Brand competes with Chevrolet in every segment except sports cars? How are they not direct competitors?

Why can't we break down how brands sales stack up against comparable brands? This is the one thing I just don't understand lol.

That's a cute jingle and all but if GM sold more midsize pickups under 11 different nameplates then it's still a fail for ToMoCo. Saying "X model is the best selling" doesn't directly correlate to sales success for companies this large and diverse.

Agreed. BUT the fact remains the Tacoma would still be the best seller in the segment. That is all I am saying totally a technicality but still true.

I would love to see a breakdown of "F-series" by model (F-150, Raptor, etc.) I suspect F-150 outsells Sierra 1500. I'm curious about the larger trucks though.

I would love to see a breakdown as well, I would love to see just half ton sales numbers.

Medisin, good debate helped pass a ton of down time at work waiting for deliveries. I think we have said all we can say on the sales part. Only answer I want is why we can't compare brand to brand lol

Have a good weekend!

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by ilirg

Made the mistake of buying two ford trucks a diesel f250 in 2002, and a 2000 fl50 v8. The 250 shit the bed at 40k miles, dealer couldn't even figure out what the problem was. 150 had problems all the time, engine blew at 90k miles. My uncles 2013 f150 transmission just went at 45k miles. You couldn't give me another Ford truck for free.

Totally get it. I had a similar issue but the other direction. Had a lawn care company back in the day, and the GMC and Chevy's were cheaper so we had 3 for every Ford. But the GM products spent 3 times as much time in the shop. Should have bought Ford from that point on, but instead we sold the company and I went into the ad biz. Now I simply avoid all pick-up trucks.