The ultimate facepalm moment. Like...I don't have words.

[Steve Dallas]

Too much of this conversation for me depends on politics and the fact that I'm a Libertarian at heart.

I will say this.

ALL drugs need to be decriminalized. As far as I'm concerned, if people want to drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, smoke marijuana, shoot opium, snort cocaine...etc...as long as they do it at home or in private, I have no problems with anyone doing this kind of thing.

I do think that enforcement of drunk/drug driving and using drugs based on your company policy is what needs to be enforced here. And...that those penalties for doing so (alcohol included) need to increased by a huge margin.

I've gone into my opinions on drunk driving before, and that my girlfriend in high school was killed by a drunk driver. To me, alcohol is the worst drug we have in the country as far as deaths, disruption of lives...and family violence. But it's legal, so it's ok (which is the worst reason I've ever heard promoting it over marijuana)

So, I'm saying that first offenses for drunk/drug driving need to be a MANDATORY 3 months in jail. Second offenses would be a year. Third penalty would be 3-5 years. All offenses should be felonies (thus falling under the 3 strikes & you're out laws).

Some people might balk at decriminalizing all forms of drugs...but I feel that if you're not harming others, why should we care what you do to yourself.

[Rangore]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

Too much of this conversation for me depends on politics and the fact that I'm a Libertarian at heart.

I will say this.

ALL drugs need to be decriminalized. As far as I'm concerned, if people want to drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, smoke marijuana, shoot opium, snort cocaine...etc...as long as they do it at home or in private, I have no problems with anyone doing this kind of thing.

I do think that enforcement of drunk/drug driving and using drugs based on your company policy is what needs to be enforced here. And...that those penalties for doing so (alcohol included) need to increased by a huge margin.

I've gone into my opinions on drunk driving before, and that my girlfriend in high school was killed by a drunk driver. To me, alcohol is the worst drug we have in the country as far as deaths, disruption of lives...and family violence. But it's legal, so it's ok (which is the worst reason I've ever heard promoting it over marijuana)

So, I'm saying that first offenses for drunk/drug driving need to be a MANDATORY 3 months in jail. Second offenses would be a year. Third penalty would be 3-5 years. All offenses should be felonies (thus falling under the 3 strikes & you're out laws).

Some people might balk at decriminalizing all forms of drugs...but I feel that if you're not harming others, why should we care what you do to yourself.

What about when these people that do this at home start to become a burden on society by medical claims they can't pay or other issues caused by them giving up on life? Curious about your thoughts there.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

Too much of this conversation for me depends on politics and the fact that I'm a Libertarian at heart.

I will say this.

ALL drugs need to be decriminalized. As far as I'm concerned, if people want to drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, smoke marijuana, shoot opium, snort cocaine...etc...as long as they do it at home or in private, I have no problems with anyone doing this kind of thing.

I do think that enforcement of drunk/drug driving and using drugs based on your company policy is what needs to be enforced here. And...that those penalties for doing so (alcohol included) need to increased by a huge margin.

I've gone into my opinions on drunk driving before, and that my girlfriend in high school was killed by a drunk driver. To me, alcohol is the worst drug we have in the country as far as deaths, disruption of lives...and family violence. But it's legal, so it's ok (which is the worst reason I've ever heard promoting it over marijuana)

So, I'm saying that first offenses for drunk/drug driving need to be a MANDATORY 3 months in jail. Second offenses would be a year. Third penalty would be 3-5 years. All offenses should be felonies (thus falling under the 3 strikes & you're out laws).

Some people might balk at decriminalizing all forms of drugs...but I feel that if you're not harming others, why should we care what you do to yourself.

I tend to agree with this, in theory. But in practice, it's a different ball-game.

While I often think we should remove safety labels off of everything and let the "problem" sort itself out, I doubt we'll ever be able to do something so drastic.

If we had a police force that could catch literally every idiot who was intoxicated (regardless of substance) behind the wheel of a car, and we had a prison system large enough country-wide to handle the sudden spike in population, then I would wholly support making everything legal.

But until then, I believe we should worry about solving the issues we face right now rather than add more issues on top of what we already have.

[kalimus]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

I tend to agree with this, in theory. But in practice, it's a different ball-game.

While I often think we should remove safety labels off of everything and let the "problem" sort itself out, I doubt we'll ever be able to do something so drastic.

If we had a police force that could catch literally every idiot who was intoxicated (regardless of substance) behind the wheel of a car, and we had a prison system large enough country-wide to handle the sudden spike in population, then I would wholly support making everything legal.

But until then, I believe we should worry about solving the issues we face right now rather than add more issues on top of what we already have.

All of this. The problem is, when you legalize everything... at what point do you stop? We ALL know, that not everyone is just going to stay home and do what they will. And when does that policy go to other things? Speeding? Gun ownership? Maybe we'll stop ticketing for texting while driving too? At what point is it not ok do let people do what they like? Public safety has GOT to be a concern at some point. It's bad enough with just alcohol. It's just a sad reality, that the human race as a whole is not mature, responsible, and competent enough to let do whatever they please. Even if HALF of the world would be responsible (and I think that's pretty generous to be honest), there would still be 3 1/2 BILLION idiots left running around

Things that are illegal help deter the problem from being worse. Take speeding for example. EVERYONE has, does, or will break the speed limit, even though it's illegal. The only thing a speed limit really does is provide a small source of income for the state, and keep MOST people reasonable when they speed. What do you think the roads would look like if we made it legal just because everyone already does it, and it's so easy to do? That's the argument being made about pot isn't it? It's easy to obtain, lots of people already do it, and there are worse things that are legal so it's not fair?

[Steve Dallas]

Originally Posted by Rangore

What about when these people that do this at home start to become a burden on society by medical claims they can't pay or other issues caused by them giving up on life? Curious about your thoughts there.

I'll just say that the taxes that could be generated by legalizing and selling safe and tested versions of all of these substances could easily cover education and treatment programs. We're talking about billions of dollars in taxes here.

Right now we are fighting a war on drugs that we haven't EVER been winning. By legalizing this, we would immediately get rid of pretty much all the organized crime (Mexican/Columbian cartels, for example), many people imprisoned would be released and other costs for enforcement would go down.

To me, the violence in Mexico and other countries is directly attributable to our countries need for these drugs. Making it illegal hasn't gotten rid of the need...that will always be there.

Ask yourself this. Do you think our country was better or worse under prohibition for alcohol? Same applies to every other drug we've made illegal. Making it legal gets rid of the underground violence associated with drugs.

[Steve Dallas]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

I tend to agree with this, in theory. But in practice, it's a different ball-game.

While I often think we should remove safety labels off of everything and let the "problem" sort itself out, I doubt we'll ever be able to do something so drastic.

If we had a police force that could catch literally every idiot who was intoxicated (regardless of substance) behind the wheel of a car, and we had a prison system large enough country-wide to handle the sudden spike in population, then I would wholly support making everything legal.

But until then, I believe we should worry about solving the issues we face right now rather than add more issues on top of what we already have.

I'll use achohol as the example here, but marijuana would be pretty much the same.

Do you think drunk driving would go down if we introduced prohibition again? Do you think people would stop drinking? Marijuana use is already widespread. There would be more users if it was legalized, but I don't think it'd change the statistics for those that use pot & drive currently.

People didn't stop drinking back when we did prohibition...and there aren't any statistics for drunk driving back in the days of prohibition...but I'm pretty sure it would be as big an issue if alcohol was illegal.

[kalimus]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

People didn't stop drinking back when we did prohibition...and there aren't any statistics for drunk driving back in the days of prohibition...but I'm pretty sure it would be as big an issue if alcohol was illegal.

I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers or anything, but you honestly think that the fact you can go out to any of the hundreds of bars to drink freely doesn't raise the drinking and driving? Yeah, they drank during the prohibition. But they didn't drive out to socialize and meet new people and then go "awww, how am I going to get home?". They had to be more "secretive" about it.

You go to any decent sized city, and you're talking literally dozens of bars within a couple square miles. You can't honestly think that that availability, combined with having to drive to get there, doesn't contribute to DUI.

Actually, I have an even better example. Not that I drank before I was 21... but IF I had... I would have went to a person's house, or a get a hotel room, and I would have gotten drunk, and not went ANYWHERE. I would have done that, because it was illegal for me to drink, and I didn't want to get caught. Now that I'm of age, and it's so socially acceptable to go have some beer with friends, etc etc... I have to plan almost every time I go out.

Increased availability and affordable prices, leads to increased use and consumption with ANY product. Gasoline, electronics, clothes, food... you name it. Drugs are no different. "Happy Hour" anyone?

[Sales @ CAI Inc]

Originally Posted by AdamZ

Wow...how stupid are people?

We have people here at the PD cleaning the floors...I am sitting at my desk. They walked by my desk to go outside and said "we are taking a break for a little bit while the carpets dry." I said "ok sound good". They came back in about 20 mins later and walked by my desk again. They smelled like they all took a bath in body spray. So I told them to stop and to come back to my desk. 3 guys. I simply said..."gentlemen, I don't know how stupid you think I am but I now have probable cause to search your van. So admit that you just went out to smoke and I won't search the van and you'll all just get misdemeanor tickets."...they looked at me like deer looking into headlights. They admitted to smoking weed and I wrote the 3 of them tickets. Like...idk. Words can't explain this one.

Seriously...now I am just sitting here thinking about this. I don't understand people...why would you go outside of a police department and light up...then come in? Like...ugghhhh.

Still thinking...I should have had them write the tickets to themselves.

You should have pulled a Super Troopers move and made them smoke the whole bag LOL but yea, what the hell were they thinking.

[Redemption]

Originally Posted by Bill @ CAI Inc

You should have pulled a Super Troopers move and made them smoke the whole bag LOL but yea, what the hell were they thinking.

Bill, you win for post of the day! If I were a young cop, I would do this.

[Redemption]

Ps, love my CAI!

[SimpleGreen]

Meh, without getting into the politics of it all.

That's funny as hell! Gotta love folks like that. Smoking the reefer at the PD.

I've had 4 or 5 run ins with the police, all to do with driving. Got off with a warning on every one of them. Except the last one. Doing 56 in a 35. Motorcycle cop got me. I was in my '05 Silverado. It was Victory Red w/ a cowl hood. I was polite, etc. He was like 'This is a really nice truck! Oh, here is your ticket!'.

$283. Ouch.

[Nessal]

Originally Posted by Hammer St. James

Mom passed on in '99. Heart failure. Can you honestly equate murder with smoking a ****ing plant? Ohio needs to get with it and legalize the shit. IMHO, booze kills far more than a joint ever did. Legalize it and it will save the police to go after the murderers and rapists and not three numbnuts who like to be high while they clean carpets. Shit man, I'd have to be high to do that mundane crap too.

As a general courtesy to my fellow Americans I offer you a short 7 minute class on the Fourth Amendment to YOUR Constitution that I found on Youtube. No silly Rick Roll shit here.

And here's one called "The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters". 45 minutes.

Fully agree with this gentleman here. I don't want to turn political all up in here, but I can safely say that we are used to having our rights trampled here in California.

[Nessal]

Originally Posted by Rangore

What about when these people that do this at home start to become a burden on society by medical claims they can't pay or other issues caused by them giving up on life? Curious about your thoughts there.

That's a easy one. If we didn't have these welfare programs in the first place, this wouldn't be a problem. Having these programs actually ENCOURAGES people to not give a rats ass because they feel that they will be taken care of.

Yes, I say let them DIE. If you are stupid enough to do drugs that harm yourself then you got what is coming to you.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by AdamZ

This is probably the most intelligent bickering I have seen on this site since I've joined. It's nothing like my drag radials post. Those guys went at each other it was hilarious. Definitely enjoying this debate.

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

Too much of this conversation for me depends on politics and the fact that I'm a Libertarian at heart.

I will say this.

ALL drugs need to be decriminalized. As far as I'm concerned, if people want to drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, smoke marijuana, shoot opium, snort cocaine...etc...as long as they do it at home or in private, I have no problems with anyone doing this kind of thing.

I do think that enforcement of drunk/drug driving and using drugs based on your company policy is what needs to be enforced here. And...that those penalties for doing so (alcohol included) need to increased by a huge margin.

I've gone into my opinions on drunk driving before, and that my girlfriend in high school was killed by a drunk driver. To me, alcohol is the worst drug we have in the country as far as deaths, disruption of lives...and family violence. But it's legal, so it's ok (which is the worst reason I've ever heard promoting it over marijuana)

So, I'm saying that first offenses for drunk/drug driving need to be a MANDATORY 3 months in jail. Second offenses would be a year. Third penalty would be 3-5 years. All offenses should be felonies (thus falling under the 3 strikes & you're out laws).

Some people might balk at decriminalizing all forms of drugs...but I feel that if you're not harming others, why should we care what you do to yourself.

Never going to work....legalizing all drugs.

Drugs are addictive. Plain and simple. People aren't going to say, "yay! legal heroin! I'm just going to get high once and then maybe do it again next weekend! Super gee wiz!"

Heroin and meth are highly addictive and people who use it, get addicted like nothing else. I know. I deal with them often. Heroin, meth, and other drugs are the #1 reason for property crimes...burglaries of homes, residences, businesses, cars, etc etc etc.

Why do people steal? It's not to feed their kids at the end of the day (they already lost them to Child Protective Services). I can promise you that. I've talked with enough addicts to learn a thing or two.

People steal to afford their habit. They will kick in your door and take anything and everything that ever meant anything to you just to they can pawn it, sell it, trade it, whatever, so they can get their next hit. They live day to day. It ALL SURROUNDS DRUGS. Now...go and make them legal so more people can get addicted? So more people can start to lose their jobs and start breaking into more homes?

Legalizing drugs flat across the board would be about the stupidest thing anyone could ever do. The country as you know it today (and it ain't that great) would completely go to shit.

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

I'll just say that the taxes that could be generated by legalizing and selling safe and tested versions of all of these substances could easily cover education and treatment programs. We're talking about billions of dollars in taxes here.
Sure...you could tax it. Yes, it would bring in more revenue.
Right now we are fighting a war on drugs that we haven't EVER been winning. By legalizing this, we would immediately get rid of pretty much all the organized crime (Mexican/Columbian cartels, for example), many people imprisoned would be released and other costs for enforcement would go down.

To me, the violence in Mexico and other countries is directly attributable to our countries need for these drugs. Making it illegal hasn't gotten rid of the need...that will always be there.
Try securing our borders. Listen to this for a sec...

Secure our borders 100% so that no drugs come in, and a MASSIVE amount of the problem drops. Cut off the druggies supply and what happens? No drugs = no reason to get high...no need to steal, cheat, etc. Property crimes go down.

I know you don't see it like we do. I wish you/everyone could see just how much of the crime we deal with on a daily basis is simply due to drugs (or the lack of money to pay for them....however you wish to see it).
Ask yourself this. Do you think our country was better or worse under prohibition for alcohol? Same applies to every other drug we've made illegal. Making it legal gets rid of the underground violence associated with drugs.

no, it won't (get rid of underground violence). It's just going to exponentially increase the violence. You gotta pay to play with the drugs. When people can't pay and are addicted, they'll do whatever it takes to get the cash.

Originally Posted by Redemption

Bill, you win for post of the day! If I were a young cop, I would do this.

Or make them eat it...lmao