Volt Sleeps With the Fishes

[PAUL SS]

This just in from the local rag, Toyota Prius v Five, base price $29,990 as tested $36,692. 44 city 40 highway. This is the five passenger wagon and it uses gas all the time. If I had to choose between this and a Volt I would take a Volt.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by drummer5679

Electric cars never have been and most likely never will be practical, or economical. Hydrogen power will most likely be the fuel cell "of the future" because its just as easy to refill and time efficient as gasoline and costs about the same. The volt was a huge blunder on gms part and a lot of money wasted that could have gone into the camaro or Corvette or future projects.

I disagree with the comment about lack of infrastructure for hydrogen powered cars. How hard could it be to convert old gas stations into hydrogen stations? Honda already has a working hydrogen powered car so while it does bot have the 100 year history of the combustion engine, its hardly in its infancy.

Not quite sure how credible this website is but its interesting to say the least. Note the article is from 2009.

http://www.h2carblog.com/?p=215

We are a lonnggggggg way from an affordable para tickle fuel cell. And this infrastructure needs to be capable of filling 10,000 psi hydrogen tanks safely. They will require hydrogen detectors on board and also at the point of refueling. Also there is the small matter that to get hydrogen from water it takes more energy than what you get out in hydrogen.

Not satin it can't happen but it isn't easy and it is farrrrrrr from ready.

Also keep in mind a fuel cell is still an EV

[ffrcobra_65]

EV1..........................VOLT................. ....reputation is hard to overcome sometimes.

[buzzy56]

The Volt just like the last GM electric vehicles (that were eventually crushed) were both over budget,over priced,and not practical at that time and even now.Other than the tax break that the purchase provides, and the ability to be unique and get to say I have one , there is absolutely no practical reason to own one.In all practicality the research will undoubtedly pay off in the long run.Timing however is not right for mass production of this type of vehicle as the market is not there and will not be for the near future.
Now let me say that my perspective is personal.I used to work at the plant in Lansing when the first GM electric vehicle was developed and as they prepared the plant for the production run and during debugging I had talked to the lead Engineer several times prior to start of production.He stated that even before production that the car would be over budget and the market limited due to cost and re-charging issues.If I remember correctly the initial estimates were cost's in the neighborhood of $20,000.00 and eventually actual production cost exceeding $40,000.00 per unit, a lot of dough back then.Now we all know what eventually happened to the program.Cars were brought back and crushed and the program was shut down.Eventually the Volt will follow the same fate only over a longer span due to Government hoop ala over alternative energy .Too costly and not practical for ninety five percent of the population.One giant tax write off for GM will be the result down the road.

[Lou_Dorchen]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Making the Volt a political punching bag doesn't help sales either....which it continues to be.

This thread proves it.

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

since they're so sore over the bailout you'd think they'd want it to succeed and the stock to go up so the country would get the money back, but they're more concerned with trying to use it as a hammer against the President.

The Volt only failed because Americans dont want electric cars in large enough numbers to make them viable without non-free market forces interfering. Actually it still failed despite the Government literally paying people to buy them. Making excuses like these is ridiculous.

If it was about Obama or the bailouts, people wouldn't be buying ANY GM or Chrysler products. Chevy is selling Camaros left and right. The Silverado is either the #1 or #2 vehicle sold in the US. Cruzes are flying off the shelves. Dodge sells every Challenger they make, and the Rams are huge sellers as well. Americans just dont want to drive electric cars, plain and simple.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by buzzy56

The Volt just like the last GM electric vehicles (that were eventually crushed) were both over budget,over priced,and not practical at that time and even now.Other than the tax break that the purchase provides, and the ability to be unique and get to say I have one , there is absolutely no practical reason to own one.In all practicality the research will undoubtedly pay off in the long run.Timing however is not right for mass production of this type of vehicle as the market is not there and will not be for the near future.
Now let me say that my perspective is personal.I used to work at the plant in Lansing when the first GM electric vehicle was developed and as they prepared the plant for the production run and during debugging I had talked to the lead Engineer several times prior to start of production.He stated that even before production that the car would be over budget and the market limited due to cost and re-charging issues.If I remember correctly the initial estimates were cost's in the neighborhood of $20,000.00 and eventually actual production cost exceeding $40,000.00 per unit, a lot of dough back then.Now we all know what eventually happened to the program.Cars were brought back and crushed and the program was shut down.Eventually the Volt will follow the same fate only over a longer span due to Government hoop ala over alternative energy .Too costly and not practical for ninety five percent of the population.One giant tax write off for GM will be the result down the road.

Not sure why you think it is impracticle for 95% of the people. It is known that 70% of drivers commute less than 40 miles round trip per day making the Volt ideal for most drivers.

Unless cost (sticker price) is your point, it is an incredibly practicle car, at least for the times I've driven one.

I've posted a number many times in the threads like these. If you happen to drive 40 miles one way to work and have a charging station where you park at work the Volt will pay for itself compared to a Cruze Eco over a 5 year note.

That's 80 miles per day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks per year, or 20,000 miles per year (a lot I know). With a 40 mpg car, that is 500 gallons per year or currently $2,000 in gas per year. Over 5 years, that's $10,000. A Cruze Eco is around 10k cheaper than a Volt and having spent time in both, the Volt is a far nicer car.

Now add, for some, the value of not having to use gas at your own choosing.................

Originally Posted by Lou_Dorchen

The Volt only failed because Americans dont want electric cars in large enough numbers to make them viable without non-free market forces interfering. Actually it still failed despite the Government literally paying people to buy them. Making excuses like these is ridiculous.

If it was about Obama or the bailouts, people wouldn't be buying ANY GM or Chrysler products. Chevy is selling Camaros left and right. The Silverado is either the #1 or #2 vehicle sold in the US. Cruzes are flying off the shelves. Dodge sells every Challenger they make, and the Rams are huge sellers as well. Americans just dont want to drive electric cars, plain and simple.

Why do you say it failed? Why is anyone saying it has failed? It hasn't been on the market for even a year yet.

BTW, Bush started the bailouts, not Obama. December of '08 was the first $17 Billion payment.

[JusticePete]

Subscribed so I don't miss any of #3 posts

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by Lou_Dorchen

If it was about Obama or the bailouts, people wouldn't be buying ANY GM or Chrysler products. Chevy is selling Camaros left and right. The Silverado is either the #1 or #2 vehicle sold in the US. Cruzes are flying off the shelves. Dodge sells every Challenger they make, and the Rams are huge sellers as well. Americans just dont want to drive electric cars, plain and simple.

UMMM... foxnews isn't politicizing any other GM car, which they are doing with the Volt.
just saw another story on there today about Obama wanting more plug-in stations. They've got a video playing...of the Volt. Not the Nissan Leaf, not any other electric car. The Volt.
Even though the Volt isn't entirely electric and you don't get stuck when the battery runs down.
Oh and by the way as far as no one else politicizing other GM cars. Anyone else here long enough to remember when the Camaro came out 3 years ago there were actually several people that posted saying they thought they should get a free one because of the bailout.
I should have asked if they paid 30k in taxes that year.

[Lou_Dorchen]

Once again, blaming it's failure on politics (or anything else) is missing the point. If the American public (ie, the free market) wants something, they buy it. They don't care about what's behind it. The NFL set ratings and revenue records last year, but you cant listen to a sports talk show for 5 minutes without hearing fans griping about the player's and owners greed. But they are first in line for season tickets and licensed NFL gear. People go see movies starring entertainers who openly tout extreme political and religious views completely opposite of their own. People complain about the 1% and giant, greedy corporations, yet line up to buy the latest Apple products by the tens of millions.

If the American people wanted an electric car in great numbers, they would have bought them in great numbers no matter what people or corporations were behind it. It's not that the Volt failed, it's that the electric car failed AGAIN. This electric car just happened to have a badge that said 'Volt' on it.

[camaro-dreamer]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Not sure why you think it is impracticle for 95% of the people. It is known that 70% of drivers commute less than 40 miles round trip per day making the Volt ideal for most drivers.

Unless cost (sticker price) is your point, it is an incredibly practicle car, at least for the times I've driven one.

I've posted a number many times in the threads like these. If you happen to drive 40 miles one way to work and have a charging station where you park at work the Volt will pay for itself compared to a Cruze Eco over a 5 year note.

That's 80 miles per day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks per year, or 20,000 miles per year (a lot I know). With a 40 mpg car, that is 500 gallons per year or currently $2,000 in gas per year. Over 5 years, that's $10,000. A Cruze Eco is around 10k cheaper than a Volt and having spent time in both, the Volt is a far nicer car.

Now add, for some, the value of not having to use gas at your own choosing.................

You assume that your work will have a charging station. In my area, the only charging station I have found at a place of business is the one at the Nissan dealership. To my knowledge, they have sold one Nissan Leaf. The strange thing is, I live in the area where they are built. To this point, there is not wide spread acceptance of this technology for either GM or Nissan. If your workplace does not provide you with a charging station, then you are using the gasoline engine the other half of the time in your example.

The average cost per recharge is about $2 from the grid which would correspond to about $500 per year. In your example, if my workplace does not have a charger, I am spending $4/day in gas and $2/day in electricity. If I buy a cruze eco, I am spending $8/day in gas. I am saving $2/day*5days/week*52weeks/year*5 year car note= $2600 over five years. In addition, I would be taking a 2.9% interest rate on a cruze eco vs a 0% interest rate on a Volt. That's another $2600 saved in interest payments over 5 years assuming no money down.

I would like nothing more than for people to be able to drive in an affordable electric car. My only issue with them at this point is that I am not in the market for an appliance. To me cars are supposed to be enjoyable at least some of the time.

[buzzy56]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Not sure why you think it is impractical for 95% of the people. It is known that 70% of drivers commute less than 40 miles round trip per day making the Volt ideal for most drivers.

Unless cost (sticker price) is your point, it is an incredibly practical car, at least for the times I've driven one.

I've posted a number many times in the threads like these. If you happen to drive 40 miles one way to work and have a charging station where you park at work the Volt will pay for itself compared to a Cruze Eco over a 5 year note.

That's 80 miles per day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks per year, or 20,000 miles per year (a lot I know). With a 40 mpg car, that is 500 gallons per year or currently $2,000 in gas per year. Over 5 years, that's $10,000. A Cruze Eco is around 10k cheaper than a Volt and having spent time in both, the Volt is a far nicer car.

Now add, for some, the value of not having to use gas at your own choosing.................



Why do you say it failed? Why is anyone saying it has failed? It hasn't been on the market for even a year yet.

BTW, Bush started the bailouts, not Obama. December of '08 was the first $17 Billion payment.

First off GM has projected 2013 sales to be around 60,000 units. So far avg.monthly sales are 1,023.Subtracting fleet sales to the US government and utility companies and other fleet purchasers, their tends to be very few retail buyers of this vehicle.So this leaves at best avg. yearly sales of approx. 12,000 units minus subsidized fleet sales.So yes I would say that more than 90% of the customer base is not interested in the Chevy Volt.Oh and earlier this week GM announced that they were shutting down Volt production indefinitely.How can a company make a profit on this vehicle at this volume?They cannot! FAILED SO FAR !

[Captain Awesome]

Don't worry guys. We can fix this mess. The answer is to just increase the subsidy from $7000 to $10000!!!

A few more years of low sales and they will be paying us to buy them!

Of course our kids and grandkids will be paying the bill in a few years. But who cares, as long as WE get OUR swag! Future generations will just have to suck it up!

http://news.investors.com/article/60...t-subsidy-.htm

Originally Posted by Investors Business Daily

While delaying the Keystone XL pipeline, the administration plans to increase the subsidy for the Chevy Volt and other "new technology" vehicles to $10,000 per car.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by buzzy56

First off GM has projected 2013 sales to be around 60,000 units. So far avg.monthly sales are 1,023.Subtracting fleet sales to the US government and utility companies and other fleet purchasers, their tends to be very few retail buyers of this vehicle.So this leaves at best avg. yearly sales of approx. 12,000 units minus subsidized fleet sales.So yes I would say that more than 90% of the customer base is not interested in the Chevy Volt.Oh and earlier this week GM announced that they were shutting down Volt production indefinitely.How can a company make a profit on this vehicle at this volume?They cannot! FAILED SO FAR !

Now we are in agreement. So far it is not at the volume GM had wanted to see. But true failure would really only be indicated by killing the program all together.

Per you clarification on Interest, it's more like 99.99% not interested. But my point was its a fine car and has EV rang e to suit most drivers. So the issue seems to be cost and also apprehension of the technology.


When I drove one I did have access to a charger at work and it really was no less convenient than driving any other car except for the extra minute to actually plug it in to charge.

For my current drive I could easily use a Volt. But like most people in not hung up on not using gas and it's not worth the premium to me for that choice.

So to be clear on my opinion the Volt has so far failed to meet expectations but it is way to early to call the car a failure. Heck it's already a success for the technology it has developed.

[buzzy56]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Now we are in agreement. So far it is not at the volume GM had wanted to see. But true failure would really only be indicated by killing the program all together.

Per you clarification on Interest, it's more like 99.99% not interested. But my point was its a fine car and has EV rang e to suit most drivers. So the issue seems to be cost and also apprehension of the technology.


When I drove one I did have access to a charger at work and it really was no less convenient than driving any other car except for the extra minute to actually plug it in to charge.

For my current drive I could easily use a Volt. But like most people in not hung up on not using gas and it's not worth the premium to me for that choice.

So to be clear on my opinion the Volt has so far failed to meet expectations but it is way to early to call the car a failure. Heck it's already a success for the technology it has developed.

I see that we agree now.Knowledge garnered now will undoubtedly provide great benefit's in the future.Until then we will see very little demand for these vehicles except for those looking for tax write off 's and those individuals that have to have one just to say that they got in on the ground floor.(wow factor). Only when forced by the pocketbook , sometime in the future will the average buyer consider electric vehicles a LOGICAL choice when purchasing a new vehicle.If the government subsidized electric vehicle research and development as much as they have ethanol production , electric car research and development with be so much further along.