Alabama governor signs nation's toughest immigration law.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Who the hek is WE. There are many avenues for immigrants/illegals to become citizens. Is that too much to ask them to do? You make many assumptions about people who believe in the rule of law.

"They" didn't believe in the rule of law when times were good and undocumented labor was cheap and plentiful. Dalton makes HALF of the world's carpets. ALL the carpet mills would have moved to the Philipines two decades ago had the Mexicans not come. The local and state officials did not enforce or even try to enforce immigration laws back then. Now it's in a 287(g) County, and there are no Anglos or Blacks to take the carpet mill jobs when the Hispanics are forced out.

Padre

[2ndgenz28]

I don’t get how its worth it, they pay $5000-$7000 each for someone to sneak them across the boarder[what all the boarder guard shows say],
to make $5000-$7000 doing a seasonal job.

Then what?

[Padre]

Originally Posted by brandotron

I look like the whitest honky ever, but I'm actually half Mexican. My grandma and other people on my dad's side are dark brown and speak with an accent. Under this measure, a cop could detain her because he "suspected" she's illegal. My grandma was born in Santa Ana, California - what papers would she carry to prove that? Anyone can get a driver's license. Would she have to carry her passport around? Would YOU have to carry your passport around? Or maybe your birth cert? This seems like legalized racism and the potential for abuse is extreme.

This is already happening in Georgia. Native-born Hispanics are being detained at the scene or taken to detention till they can show something other than a driver's license to prove they're here legally. What precisely is that, and why should any native-born American have to go through extra hoops because an officer has some vaguely defined suspicion that the person may be here illegally? That's why all of us should be worried about the abuse of our 4th Ammendment rights.

Padre

[PQ]

So, Padre, what is your solution?

Amnesty?

So then 20 years form now? Do it again? It doens't piss you off that so many imigrants go through so much anguish and separation and time to get here legaly while those who just break the law come here without the proper method? All that anguish and hardship and seperation is being experienced by so many doing it the RIGHT way. And the ones you speak of just STOLE it.

You believe I am heartless and don't understand becasue I"m not there to see it first hand. And it may be true to an extent. I haven't seen it. But what I HAVE seen are the ones who suffer the same seperation and anguish you are talking about DOING IT LEGALY. This is my country. The one I served in the military for. The one I spent miserable time in Iraq, Kuwait, Honduras and Panama for. So it is that important to me. And my father was 100% Sioux Indian, so NO, I'm not an imigrant. My mothers parents were. So I'm not being insensitive, just responsible.

EDIT:

After re-reading this post, I just can't let the 'My father was 100% Sioux Indian' part stay like that. I should have said my 'Biological' father was 100% Sioux Indian'. He was a wife beating alchoholic scumbag and didnt' raise me. My DAD did. Adopted.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Padre

"They" didn't believe in the rule of law when times were good and undocumented labor was cheap and plentiful.
Padre

Well, that is illegal activity as well and should not be tolerated. It only creates more problems down the road. We have NO consistency in laws throughout our land. That is one of our biggest problems. We need clear, consise, immigration laws, plans, etc. so we can get a handle on this. It can be a win, win for everyone.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by PQ

So, Padre, what is your solution?

Amnesty?

First, border enforcement. Easily done if the Federal government has the will.

Second, President George W. Bush's plan, as I said: work permits, back of the line, English and Civics.

This would enable those who were allowed here and allowed to legally work here the ability to get driver's license and insurance. That would, among other things, address the complaint about supposedly not paying taxes and the real problem of uninsured drivers (can't get insurance if you don't have a license).

Padre

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Padre

That's why all of us should be worried about the abuse of our 4th Ammendment rights.

Padre

There is gonna be abuse of power no matter what. This needs to be dealt with and violaters punished. For the most part people are gonna do the right thing. This is not going to mushroom into a dictatorship. It simply would not be allowed. We would not tolerate it.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Padre

First, border enforcement. Easily done if the Federal government has the will.

Second, President George W. Bush's plan, as I said: work permits, back of the line, English and Civics.

This would enable those who were allowed here and allowed to legally work here the ability to get driver's license and insurance. That would, among other things, address the complaint about supposedly not paying taxes and the real problem of uninsured drivers (can't get insurance if you don't have a license).

Padre

No arguement here. Completely agree. This gets their documentation and a avenue within which they can become citizens.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Well, that is illegal activity as well and should not be tolerated. It only creates more problems down the road. We have NO consistency in laws throughout our land. That is one of our biggest problems. We need clear, consise, immigration laws, plans, etc. so we can get a handle on this. It can be a win, win for everyone.

Agreed. And now we're punishing people who were invited in by all these local and state officials who loved the booming economy and the cheap labor. Crops in South Georgia will go unharvested this year (no more Vidalia onions!) because no one will take the jobs and the growers will not pay more than slave wages. Ironic thing isn't it, that the economy of the South still thinks it can rely on slave labor?

But those at greater fault are not the workers, but the plantation owners, if you know what I mean. Punish them, not the guy who came here trying to feed his family.

Padre

[Mikes SS]

Padre, I get what you are saying, but that was 15-20 years ago and they have asymilitaled their lives to that city that county that part of the state. they are assests to the community and their children are also I am sure. They probably ARE the community. It is not the same way anymore, 15-20 years ago was the same basically as 100 years ago when people came here made roots and became pillars of the society. There wasn't standards 150 years ago to come to this country and become a citizen. The people naturally wanted to learn and be fluent with the native language, they had farms to work and kids to feed they were proud to be "AMERICAN". They made America. The same thing does not happen these days. All walks of life come to this country, can't speak a lick of english and don't plan on doing so and don't want to be American, because they are proud of their mother country. If they were so proud why did they leave? the answer is better opportunities. why not give a little back for all that they have received coming here.

[PQ]

And Padre, you glossed over the question I was most interested about.

Doesn't it piss you off to see the families that spend years seperated and all of the hard times due to it because they are doing it legaly when some just take it ilegaly?

I know a guy RIGHT now who has a wife who is waiting for citizenship after going through all the neccesary steps to do it. They are seperated. I'd be PISSED if I were these guys. Give me one good reason to go through it the right way when it's so easy to do it the illegal way?

[PQ]

BTW, I am all for your idea of the Gov. becoming more strict. And if we can find a way to get the productive illegals legalized. I'm not insensitive. I probably know people personaly who may be illegal. I don't have an answer for the ones who are here.

But I sure as hell am not going to consider the state an enemy for wanting to crack down. Part of enforcing the borders is to pass bills like this. Alabama CAN'T enforce the border. Alabama has illegals who are here becasue the borders weren't forced THEN.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by PQ

And Padre, you glossed over the question I was most interested about.

Doesn't it piss you off to see the families that spend years seperated and all of the hard times due to it because they are doing it legaly when some just take it ilegaly?

I know a guy RIGHT now who has a wife who is waiting for citizenship after going through all the neccesary steps to do it. They are seperated. I'd be PISSED if I were these guys. Give me one good reason to go through it the right way when it's so easy to do it the illegal way?

That's why border enforcement is the first priority.

And what you are saying about "right now" is not particularly true. It can take 20 years for someone to go through a legal immigration process. Not only is the border broken, but the actual immigration process is pretty ridiculous too - it doesn't work for the vast majority. Many people come here legally, begin the process, but can't complete it because of some obscure rule or such, and they're here in limbo. I've got such people in my church, and meanwhile their kids are born and raised here, are perfectly bilingual, and live in fear that mom and dad may not come home from work today.

The Vidalia onions in South Georgia need to be picked Right Now. The Federal Government only allows visas for 10% of the actual number of migrant workers needed. The whole system is broken. Randomly deporting an immigrant who can't produce a driver's license (because they're not allowed to get one) will not solve any problem and says something about us as a nation.

Padre

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

I see your edit, but I want to make sure you understand that what you are saying is exactly what I mean. You took that sentence out of context. What you'd described as their benefit, is what I meant by taking advantage of our system.

I know. That's why I threw the edit in there.

And Padre, the IRS can come to your parish and make sure everyone knows how to get a tax ID for work. My wife needed one as well while we were in Germany to file a joint return. She didn't have her visa yet. Fast forward seven years later I had to get her a visa to get to the states.

If you think the IRS and Dept of Homeland Security know what the other's hand is doing you've been duped.

This great country of our's has been named "the land of opportunity." And phrases of "Give us your tired, your poor....", and I am elevty billion on board with that. Come, work, live and prosper, but their are ways to do this right. You can obtain and renew a work visa as long as you have a sponsor (employer).

And as far as beefing up the borders. Lets call that the dam and it's broke. Do you just ignore the flood that spilled out on the other side. Just rebuild the dam and forget about the lake that took the place of our farmlands and homes?

20 years?