Mustang preparing for its rivals

[TAG UR IT]

Love the Bud poster!!! YEAH!!! That was fantastic!

[Rock36]

I will tell you what I like about my Mustang, and that is how responsive it is to simple bolt-on modifications.

It is very easy to make a current Mustang GT a 12 second racer at the drag strip and keep your total costs under $30 grand (including the cost of the car). Yeah yeah I know I'm talking about a moddified car, but so are most cars that have seen a track more than once...

What I don't like is the displacement obviously. In my mind a muscle car, or pony car, should ideally have over 300 cubic inches...or 5.0L.

The live axle instead of IRS makes for a bit of a choppy ride on bumpy roads around corners, but unless you are at an autocross event it really doesn't matter.

It is still my opinion that the real advantages of IRS come when you are really pushing your car to the limits, or only if you know anything about road racing and really know how to drive. I have kept up with many cars that were trying to loose me in the twisties that clearly had better handling (350Z most notably) because they had no concept of when or how long to break or how to cut an apex.

Even still I would much rather have the IRS than not.

Oh and the Mustang GT still is stuck with a 5 speed manual tranny, I really don't like that. Having a super tall 6th gear and a slightly steeper 5th would allow me to run something like 4.30 gears out back if I wanted, and not have to sacrifice much top end......

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

GM's Mustang contender will always have more power by just a bit. It's the sad fact that when there is no contender for the Mustang, Ford gets all the glory. I'll hand it to Ford. This latest rendition of the Mustang is one of my favorites. I would like to drive one just so I could compare to my current SS. It isn't a bad car. You guys have heard me talk about the fox body stang my old roommate had (did a powerslide in it right behind a police officer on accident many years ago...thank God he didn't see).

Keep the discussion going on the topic if ya'll want. It is interesting. Let's all try to keep the other flames extinguished...if you will. You guys did an excellent job in putting them out.

I think this is where I differ with most Chevy guys. I don't think a Mustang GT should be compared to the Camaro SS. Maybe it is a little different with the new generation Mustang, but from 1994 until 2002 (when the Camaro went on hiatus) the comparable Mustang was the Cobra Mustang.

I say this because production numbers for both the SS Camaros and Cobra Mustangs were typically similar, the cost of Mustang Cobra's and Camaro SS were usually priced similarly as well.

For instance in 1998

There were 2875 Camaro SS built of 48,490 total Camaros...or 5.9%
There were 8654 Mustang Cobras of 175,522 total Mustangs or 4.9%
but...
There were 45813 Mustang GTs of 175,522 total Mustangs built...or 26%

http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/98buildnumbers/
http://www.muscularmustangs.com/database2/1998.php

Then in 1999

There were 4837 Camaro SS built of 42,098 total Camaros...or 11.5%
There were 8095 Mustang Cobras of 133,907 total Mustangs or 6.05%
but...
There were 33,333 Mustang GTs of 133,907 total Mustangs built...or 24.9%

http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/99buildnumbers/
http://www.muscularmustangs.com/database2/1999.php

I used 1998 and 1999 because it was the most complete data I could find for both cars without spending all day searching.

As for cost in 1998...the Cobra and SS are very close (priced with $1000 of each other) compared to the Mustang GT that costs over $4K less than either.

Mustang GT $20,150
Mustang Cobra $25,710
Camaro SS $24,449

http://www.muscularmustangs.com/database2/1998.php
http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camar....php?year=1998


A couple of notes.

1) These are stats from 10 years ago, and says nothing about how the 5th Gen will be priced and optioned, and the effect of the current GT500. I've just seen many people compare the Camaro SS to the Mustang GT.

2) The Z28 is much closer to the Mustang GT in terms of price and production, and had similar performance to the SS because of the same power plant.

3) Even if the SS and the Cobra should be compared the SS still had more power. The Cobra is just much closer than the GT.

A 1998 Cobra had 300hp compared to the SS with an underated 320hp.
In 1999 the Cobra bumped up to 320 hp also, but they had that issue (fixed in 2001) where they had to do a recall and fix the engine so it would make the advertised HP.

[Silverado]

That Bud poster was one of the funniest things I've seen in awhile.

Thanks for that post.

[Rock36]

Ha Ha I think it is funny that after the Real Men of Genius poster was posted. I wrote two long ass posts about Mustangs. It hits a little too close to home.

At least I don't trash talk, but I sure do stroke the keyboard.

[2001ragtop]

Originally Posted by juzlookzfazt

Ford is already behind with their Mustangs V8. Only 300BHP. Where as GM has been sporting the 400BHP LS2 for years. Ford has a lot of catch up to do. Id still get a Mustang even still.

Just putting in my 2 cents:

I think the mustang engines will greatly improve after Camaros/Challengers go on sale. It will be interesting to see "real numbers", on how many fewer mustangs are actually sold.

But this is a good thing. Camaros will be pressuring others to give the buyers what they wanted a long time ago.

Adios

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Rock36

I will tell you what I like about my Mustang, and that is how responsive it is to simple bolt-on modifications.

It is very easy to make a current Mustang GT a 12 second racer at the drag strip and keep your total costs under $30 grand (including the cost of the car). Yeah yeah I know I'm talking about a moddified car, but so are most cars that have seen a track more than once...

What I don't like is the displacement obviously. In my mind a muscle car, or pony car, should ideally have over 300 cubic inches...or 5.0L.

The live axle instead of IRS makes for a bit of a choppy ride on bumpy roads around corners, but unless you are at an autocross event it really doesn't matter.

It is still my opinion that the real advantages of IRS come when you are really pushing your car to the limits, or only if you know anything about road racing and really know how to drive. I have kept up with many cars that were trying to loose me in the twisties that clearly had better handling (350Z most notably) because they had no concept of when or how long to break or how to cut an apex.

Even still I would much rather have the IRS than not.

Oh and the Mustang GT still is stuck with a 5 speed manual tranny, I really don't like that. Having a super tall 6th gear and a slightly steeper 5th would allow me to run something like 4.30 gears out back if I wanted, and not have to sacrifice much top end......

bolt-ons are a stangs best friend. lol

Originally Posted by Rock36

I think this is where I differ with most Chevy guys. I don't think a Mustang GT should be compared to the Camaro SS.

i agree with you on this that the gt is more = to the Z28. in my opinion its usually the SS guys who think they are something special who make that comparison. and a few unknowing others.

IMO there isnt a comparison between the mustang and camaro. CAMARO FTW! lol

Originally Posted by Silverado

That Bud poster was one of the funniest things I've seen in awhile.

Thanks for that post.

you are welcome, more to come

Originally Posted by Rock36

Ha Ha I think it is funny that after the Real Men of Genius poster was posted. I wrote two long ass posts about Mustangs. It hits a little too close to home.

At least I don't trash talk, but I sure do stroke the keyboard.

like I said, It wasnt aimed at anyone, but I knew it would get a kick from most of the users here and maybe a chuckle from you mustangers

[TAG UR IT]

Rock,

Ok...Z28 is comparable to the GT and the SS to the Cobra. That's fair and according to those #'s.

Good point on the Z28 compared to the SS. A little extra info on this...The only hp adder on the SS over the Z28 is the functional hood scoop...period. IMO, it was rediculous that GM only gave the public a functional air scoop as the only power adder....oh, and the free flow exhaust which in combination supposedly gave the SS 20 or so extra horsies....please. When I got my Z28, I added the cold air kit (equivilant of the SS's functional air scoop) and the SLP Loudmouth exhaust. That alone gave me the same, if not a couple more, hp over the stock SS. I added the air lid, MAF, and the K&N, and I was taking stock SS's at the track (not by a whole lot, but I was).

I compare them that way because that's just how I saw the two. I see how you could compare the Cobra to the SS.

[acscamarochick06]

I always thought the Z28 was compared to the GT and the Cobra compared to the SS... It just seemed fair since the SS and the Cobra were both "top of the line" vehicles in the line without being special editions or limited or anything. Does that make sense?? lol

[Silverado]

I with her, I always looked at the "rivals" that way.

The other thing I always looked at was those "Bang for the Buck" articles that magazines do. When they were rivals, the Camaro was always on the list and the Mustang wasn't.

I want to see the Camaro back on those lists.

[SSmoked]

i always thought the z28 was small motor and better control(sorta like the trans am verson of the camaro for the road), while the ss was all in the motor(big block), and the rs was looks(hide-a-ways)

[Rock36]

I guess my perception was off a little. I just always had the impression that Camaro fans usually discounted the Mustang Cobras and really just picked on the GTs. I'm glad I was wrong.


I should have highlighted the Z28 phenomenon more than I originally did, because at least throughout the 4th gen the Z28 was right there with the SS in terms of power and performance....even if it wasn't that way on paper.

I have no problem admitting that in stock forms the Camaro is the quicker more muscular car as a whole.

[EllwynX]

Originally Posted by Rock36

I think this is where I differ with most Chevy guys. I don't think a Mustang GT should be compared to the Camaro SS. Maybe it is a little different with the new generation Mustang, but from 1994 until 2002 (when the Camaro went on hiatus) the comparable Mustang was the Cobra Mustang.

I agree, and always got annoyed when magazines compared the Cobra to the Z28... (Z28 still usually came out on top though in the ones I read.) I think they just didn't want to embarass the Cobra TOO much, so compared it to the 'lower' model Camaro instead of what it was really competing against. lol

Camaro V6 - Mustang V6
Camaro Z28 - Mustang GT
Camaro SS - Mustang Cobra (or whatever moniker they give it from here on out)

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

... I added the air lid, MAF, and the K&N...

Damn...could you help a stupid guy out?:o What are all those things? I have ideas, but no solid knowlege...