How did Ford get 400hp+

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by Chief Blackhawk

HP per liter is useless. Also fail at comparing pure race motors designed to last 1 race against production motors designed to last 100k plus miles.

If you want to play the stupid hp per liter game there are top fuel motors that make thousands of HP.

Theres no replacement for displacement. Its a fact.

Why are you guys so aggressive? are you OK? I did not compare an F1 motor to anything I was saying "here is some real impressive hp per liter" holy hell.

[Unfair]

OK, try to get a hold of your emotions you're on the internet not in iraq.
I can find A BUNCH of posts from members here at camaro5 stating how they are comparing hp/liter between cars, why? ask them I guess.
Maybe everyone besides you is a complete moron?

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Unfair

I was just posting HP per liter not all that other stuff. I am impressed by F1 cars and the power they put out with such small engines, I didn't get into the car at all, just the engine.

No coffee today? jeez

Please tell me you aren't upset that someone takes a different position than you do...

You stated your thoughts I argued mine... My point is your apples to oranges comparison doesn't really make sense.

Not sure why you are bothered by this... Just took a page out of your book.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Unfair

OK, try to get a hold of your emotions you're on the internet not in iraq.
I can find A BUNCH of posts from members here at camaro5 stating how they are comparing hp/liter between cars, why? ask them I guess.
Maybe everyone besides you is a complete moron?

Maybe you should leave the thread if you can't be objective and not get your feelings hurt.



Haven't you given similar advice in the past?

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by Chief Blackhawk

You said hp per liter isnt completly usesless then tried to show why for some reason. I just showed you an example of how CI matters.

Somebody asked Unfair how many log ins he had, but that got changed.

In response to "what the hell are you talking about", Chief. I'm not trying to be a smartass or answer in riddles. Every single mod you do to an engine other than bore and stroke is designed to increase your hp/l. It can't be an unimportant stat or the only mod that would be done would be boring and stroking. I would think this would be self evident. I bet you a top fuel drag owner who's got no material left to bore out understands this.

Like I said though, alot of HP/L is a function of RPM- but burning the gas more efficiently to get more power isn't unimportant.

I just think some of us on this board feel a deep seated need to defend everything Chevy and will throw away a stat if it works against you. You don't have to be attacking Chevy to think it would be great if their 6.2 got the same efficiency as their 3.6 (which would put it at about 540 hp and everyone would be so happy about how high the hp/l is)

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Please tell me you aren't upset that someone takes a different position than you do...

You stated your thoughts I argued mine... My point is your apples to oranges comparison doesn't really make sense.

Not sure why you are bothered by this... Just took a page out of your book.

I wasn't bothered at all actually, what bothered me more was the tone of the reply rather than the idea... seems very aggressive for no reason.

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Maybe you should leave the thread if you can't be objective and not get your feelings hurt.



Haven't you given similar advice in the past?

If you take a minute to scroll up you will see I wasn't the one that came off as aggressive when I simply posted how I was impressed by an F1 engine.
I didn't know F1 engines were a soft spot, my feelings don't get hurt on the internet sorry.

and sorry for any misunderstanding or what you "think" I was saying.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Unfair

I wasn't bothered at all actually, what bothered me more was the tone of the reply rather than the idea... seems very aggressive for no reason.




If you take a minute to scroll up you will see I wasn't the one that came off as aggressive when I simply posted how I was impressed by an F1 engine.
I didn't know F1 engines were a soft spot, my feelings don't get hurt on the internet sorry.

and sorry for any misunderstanding or what you "think" I was saying.

so you were trying to hear tone on the Internet... instead of having a discussion about the topic you want to respond to the "tone" of a post...

So the tone of the Memo you mentioned earlier would have been.... sarcasm????

[Sax1031]

For all out power potential their is NO replacement for displacement.

[Fast Eddie]

Originally Posted by oldlugs

...and I like hauling those fat girls around fast.

...

It won't be long before we can buy 12 second electric muscle cars.

Keep those fat girls happy.

You mean like these? tesla motors

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by Chief Blackhawk

My point being is when you advertise a car/motor you dont advertise hp per liter because nobody cares. They care about the bottom dollar how much hp and tq it makes. How it gets there is irrelevent. IMO anyways.

But show me one ad that says our mustang makes blah blah blah hp per liter and chevy only makes blah blah blah hp per liter.

Whats next? Towing capacity per C.I.?

Payload per cylinder?

HP per liter doesnt really say anything at all. Thats why I see it as irrelevent.

Im not trying to be a dick about anything with it either. So please dont take it that way.

HP per liter tells you the general efficiency of an engine, hardly a useless stat if you want to get technical, you're right every joe schmoe wouldn't care. But it's a stat none the less and there is no way you are going to change that no matter what you say and at the end of the day and before you go to sleep HP per liter will still show the efficiency of any given engine.

I won't reply to you again because you are overly sensitive and will just get mad.
and I will just say the same thing after this about HP per liter, so there you have it.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Unfair

HP per liter tells you the general efficiency of an engine, hardly a useless stat if you want to get technical, you're right every joe schmoe wouldn't care. But it's a stat none the less and there is no way you are going to change that no matter what you say and at the end of the day and before you go to sleep HP per liter will still show the efficiency of any given engine.

I won't reply to you again because you are overly sensitive and will just get mad.
and I will just say the same thing after this about HP per liter, so there you have it.

Pot, meet Kettle.

[derklug]

The true phrase should be "There is no cheap replacement for displacement." Building small powerfull motors requires much more cash.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by derklug

The true phrase should be "There is no cheap replacement for displacement." Building small powerfull motors requires much more cash.

The cost is part of it though. And with naturally aspirated engines, there is a big difference between a small engine with a high specific output vs a large engine with low specific output even if both make the same peak power. Namely torque, powerband, and average output.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The cost is part of it though. And with naturally aspirated engines, there is a big difference between a small engine with a high specific output vs a large engine with low specific output even if both make the same peak power. Namely torque, powerband, and average output.

You have to take "effective" displacement into account. Displacement is literally the volume of the fuel/air mixture in the combustion chamber. When you increase pressure without increasing volume, you are effectively increasing displacement. Because of many factors like heat radiation, this is not an exact truth, but in theory a 2.0L engine boosted to 14.7PSI above atmospheric or +1 ATM is effectively a 4.0L engine. There isn't a replacement for displacement, but there is a replacement for physical size of the combustion chamber and that is pressure.

Anyway since that example is fresh in your head, mean effective pressure is just as important as volume of the combustion chamber. Really, MEP itself is the explanation of how Ford can make such power with such displacement and I am shocked it hasn't been thoroughly discussed in this thread. Actually, I am not LOL.

simply put:

Work done = mean effective pressure * displacement

You then have to account for number of cycles (RPM), but you get the point.

Work is what really matters.

If something above doesn't make sense or is miswritten I apologize and I will fix it in the morning. My laptop is just about to run out of batteries and I don't have time to look it over.