Mustang gets a clue in 2014

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by a_Username

lol!

LOL where do you get these smilies

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Zeus

LOL where do you get these smilies

My brother's diesel website, www.thetruckstop.us. I have no idea where he finds them though... they are some epic ones though lol.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by a_Username

My brother's diesel website, www.thetruckstop.us. I have no idea where he finds them though... they are some epic ones though lol.

sneaky....... is that in the ???

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Zeus

sneaky....... is that in the ???

Wut?

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Wut?

I'm just trying to use the smilie as much as possible.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by syr74

The irony here is that I think GM has their priorities right given the demographic the Camaro primarily appeals to. Put simply, I think most Camaro owners would rather talk about handling limits than actually explore them, and I likewise think that most Camaro owners would complain about a sob par ride long before they would fuss about understeer or numb steering.

In all Honesty, I think you just described the Mustang demographic. The camaro has always been more of the enthusiast muscle car in comparison to the mustang. remeber the 4th gen camaros 1LE suspension pack (track pack), what did the mustang have?? nothing that I can remember. When it comes to Domestic cars that focus on handling and straightline acceleration it is GM>Ford. Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that ford is FINALLY getting away from the "thats good enough" mindset, But in all honesty you really described the mustang demographic.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by truth411

In all Honesty, I think you just described the Mustang demographic. The camaro has always been more of the enthusiast muscle car in comparison to the mustang. remeber the 4th gen camaros 1LE suspension pack (track pack), what did the mustang have?? nothing that I can remember. When it comes to Domestic cars that focus on handling and straightline acceleration it is GM>Ford. Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that ford is FINALLY getting away from the "thats good enough" mindset, But in all honesty you really described the mustang demographic.

You think that the Mustang crowd is worried about ride quality?


Why buy a car with that suspension if your worried about ride quality?

[syr74]

Originally Posted by truth411

In all Honesty, I think you just described the Mustang demographic. The camaro has always been more of the enthusiast muscle car in comparison to the mustang. remeber the 4th gen camaros 1LE suspension pack (track pack), what did the mustang have?? nothing that I can remember. When it comes to Domestic cars that focus on handling and straightline acceleration it is GM>Ford. Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that ford is FINALLY getting away from the "thats good enough" mindset, But in all honesty you really described the mustang demographic.

My argument in two short phrases....

1: The fifth generation Camaro is arguably the most popular and best received f-body in many, many years

2: As of right now the fifth generation Camaro has one suspension setup, and that setup says lounge lizard a lot louder than it says sports car.

There is nothing wrong with that, it works and given the popularity of the car it seems the fan base approves. However, that makes it very difficult to make a case for the notion that the typical Camaro enthusiast is overly concerned with razor sharp reflexes. And perhaps that was the problem prior to this model, GM was focused on things like offering a 1LE package when what Camaro buyers really wanted was just a comfortable, good looking car with a lot of power.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by syr74

My argument in two short phrases....

1: The fifth generation Camaro is arguably the most popular and best received f-body in many, many years

2: As of right now the fifth generation Camaro has one suspension setup, and that setup says lounge lizard a lot louder than it says sports car.

There is nothing wrong with that, it works and given the popularity of the car it seems the fan base approves. However, that makes it very difficult to make a case for the notion that the typical Camaro enthusiast is overly concerned with razor sharp reflexes. And perhaps that was the problem prior to this model, GM was focused on things like offering a 1LE package when what Camaro buyers really wanted was just a comfortable, good looking car with a lot of power.

Isn't that the definition of a muscle car?

[syr74]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Isn't that the definition of a muscle car?

It is, and I started to mention the same in my post above to further point out the difference in these two cars. To wit, I think the Camaro is obviously taking the muscle car approach as a larger GT car while the Mustang is taking the traditional ponycar approach it held to from 1965 through 1968 which is more in the spirit of the classic, smaller GT cars that provided the inspiration for the original Mustang.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by syr74

My argument in two short phrases....

1: The fifth generation Camaro is arguably the most popular and best received f-body in many, many years

2: As of right now the fifth generation Camaro has one suspension setup, and that setup says lounge lizard a lot louder than it says sports car.

There is nothing wrong with that, it works and given the popularity of the car it seems the fan base approves. However, that makes it very difficult to make a case for the notion that the typical Camaro enthusiast is overly concerned with razor sharp reflexes. And perhaps that was the problem prior to this model, GM was focused on things like offering a 1LE package when what Camaro buyers really wanted was just a comfortable, good looking car with a lot of power.

LOL... My answer below..

1. Ok, yes there is build up demand for the camaro especialy now that it is back on the market. But when you say "Camaro demographic" that is more than just 5th gen camaro owners Mkay.

2. It is the very first model year, obviously Higher performance versions comes after the initial release. When they come, usually stuff trickle down to lower trim levels which make them better. Was it not the same with the 2010 Mustang "track pack" that was items used on the GT-500. "lounge Lizard"?? a bit extreme is it not. Comparing a base 1SS 2010 camaro with no options to a 2010 Mustang with No options, Which one would be the "lounge Lizzard"??

I garrantee you your average Camaro enthusiat (key word) cares alot more about handling than you average Mustang Enthusiast, who for the most part ONLY care about drag racing, Hence the desire to keep the simplicity of the SRA. Of course the average OWNER of either the mustang or the camaro wants a cheap spoty ride that is pretty quick and looks good. But the demographic of the enthusiast of the camaro and mustang are:

Camaro Enthusiast: Drag racing and Track performance. (a combination of both)

Mustang: Drag racing and thats it. (why do you think the hardcore mustang fans DO NOT WANT a IRS.)

Utlimately you are makeing conclusions based of the very first model year and ASSUMEING no improvments will ever come to the Camaro. I think that is unrealistic and illogical. Also When you use the term "demographic" it kinda gos back to GM and Ford differences as a whole between the fan base. GM fanbase as a whole do care about handling and it reflects in the products. Ford fanbase only cares about Drag racing, ther are a few exceptions, but ford knows what there fans want. Is that not why you can buy a Mustang built from the factory ready for the drag stripe. (forgot the name of it.)

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by truth411

LOL... My answer below..

1. Ok, yes there is build up demand for the camaro especialy now that it is back on the market. But when you say "Camaro demographic" that is more than just 5th gen camaro owners Mkay.

2. It is the very first model year, obviously Higher performance versions comes after the initial release. When they come, usually stuff trickle down to lower trim levels which make them better. Was it not the same with the 2010 Mustang "track pack" that was items used on the GT-500. "lounge Lizard"?? a bit extreme is it not. Comparing a base 1SS 2010 camaro with no options to a 2010 Mustang with No options, Which one would be the "lounge Lizzard"??

I don't think your using the Lizard term in the right context

I garrantee you your average Camaro enthusiat (key word) cares alot more about handling than you average Mustang Enthusiast

Then thats going to be one disappointed Camaro enthusiast.

who for the most part ONLY care about drag racing, Hence the desire to keep the simplicity of the SRA. Of course the average OWNER of either the mustang or the camaro wants a cheap spoty ride that is pretty quick and looks good. But the demographic of the enthusiast of the camaro and mustang are:

Camaro Enthusiast: Drag racing and Track performance. (a combination of both)

Well you did say that this isn't the 5th gen enthusiast, it is the Camaro enthusiast as a whole... So would you say the Generations of Camaro's are good road course cars without serious modification?

Mustang: Drag racing and thats it. (why do you think the hardcore mustang fans DO NOT WANT an IRS.)

Serious Mustang fan's seem to value drag racing over everything else... but again that could change in the immediate future because of how capable the new Mustang is at everything else

GM fanbase as a whole do care about handling and it reflects in the products. Ford fanbase only cares about Drag racing.

Yes... GM fan's aren't happy unless their car hits 8 minutes on the Nurburgring.........

. Is that not why you can buy a Mustang built from the factory ready for the drag stripe. (forgot the name of it.)

Yea... but Chrysler does that with the Dodge Challenger as well... and that car is built on an IRS Mercedes platform which is has more float than the Camaro's

[MrIcky]

Y'all have some deep misconceptions. Ford makes factory track cars as well, the FR500S. Ford has a pretty big roadcourse history in the Mustang. SRA's seem to work just fine on roadcourses too, it's regular crappy roads that they have problems with.



Factory roadcourse car.

It's a silly argument to say 'average mustang owner vs average camaro owner'. They've been going back and forth against each other for a LOOOONG time.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by truth411

Ok, yes there is build up demand for the camaro especialy now that it is back on the market. But when you say "Camaro demographic" that is more than just 5th gen camaro owners Mkay.

I understand the argument, but those 'other' Camaro enthusiasts apparently weren't buying enough Camaros to keep the name alive. This revived and much more popular Camaro seems to be doing just fine without world class handling, and I think that tells us more about where the bulk of Camaro buyers place their priorities than anything else. The Camaro is selling better than it has in years despite virtually no emphasis on handling.

Originally Posted by Truth411

I garrantee you your average Camaro enthusiat (key word) cares alot more about handling than you average Mustang Enthusiast, who for the most part ONLY care about drag racing, Hence the desire to keep the simplicity of the SRA.

Really? Most of the major Ford shows across the country involve road course events and Mustangs are always a major portion of that. Saleen founded his company upon the basis of better handling Mustangs, and was embraced for it in his early days. And as we know the Mustang has recently undergone a sort of handling renaissance and has been lauded for the same.

On the other hand, the new Camaro is more of a highway cruiser than corner carver, and for the most part we haven't heard much in the way of complaining from the faithful. Are you sure you understand the different demographics here?

Originally Posted by Truth411

Mustang: Drag racing and thats it. (why do you think the hardcore mustang fans DO NOT WANT a IRS.)

Mustang is one of the best handling coupes in anything like the price range on the market without IRS, so why would Mustang enthusiasts be clamoring for change here?

Originally Posted by Truth411

Utlimately you are makeing conclusions based of the very first model year and ASSUMEING no improvments will ever come to the Camaro. I think that is unrealistic and illogical. Also When you use the term "demographic" it kinda gos back to GM and Ford differences as a whole between the fan base. GM fanbase as a whole do care about handling and it reflects in the products.

It doesn't reflect in the Camaro.

Originally Posted by Truth411

Ford fanbase only cares about Drag racing, ther are a few exceptions, but ford knows what there fans want. Is that not why you can buy a Mustang built from the factory ready for the drag stripe. (forgot the name of it.)

You actually think Ford built a factory drag car that isn't street legal for the enthusiasts? It's a race car, built for racing. GM sponsors NASCAR race cars, does that mean they don't care about other racing series?