Alabama governor signs nation's toughest immigration law.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

Well, if that person wants to stay alive, live in the US, earn a living in the US, have them sign all the documents stating they will do their job, protect the American people, their own soldiers, etc, they'd better do that, or else be dishonorably discharged and sent packing back home. No one would be forcing them to join the military, it's just another option for them. For example, maybe a young man loves the United States, and sees this opportunity to help defend it, and create a better life for thrmself and their family. Who knows, many he'll stay in for a full 20years. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that, and that's one less person in the US illegally.

Fair enough. Many of our own guys join for the same reasons.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by irocnroll

My arguement is towards both. Illegal or Legal, they are still filling these jobs.

They can fill the job just as good becoming legal. How exactly is it a benefit for an illegal to have a job in America? You think that just because they become legal, they will demand more money? That's a negative. There is no reason for anyone to be illegal in this country, except to take advantage of our system...

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

You are talking about immigrants, while other people are talking about illegal immigrants...

Illegal is Ilegal, as in against the law, not within the law. The rule of Law must be followed. When laws are just seen as an obstacle and disobeyed without even a regret, we are in big trouble. I have NO problem with ANYONE wanting to come to this country. Just do it within the laws.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Illegal is Ilegal, as in against the law, not within the law. The rule of Law must be followed. When laws are just seen as an obstacle and disobeyed without even a regret, we are in big trouble. I have NO problem with ANYONE wanting to come to this country. Just do it within the laws.

Now if we could just get our law-MAKERS to follow that....... We'd be set.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by PQ

Now if we could just get our law-MAKERS to follow that....... We'd be set.

It is amazing isn't it? I certainly don't have all the answers, hell, I don't even know all the questions. But DAMN, we got some messed up thinking in this country.

[Mikes SS]

The problem really is all of the skewed thinking all over this country. If you come to this country be a part of this country. If you want to come here for a better lifestyle be a part of that life style. I am not saying to give up your heritage, but people that came over here from europe a long time ago or any other country came here for a better life and better opportunities, the became naturalized and were proud to be a part of their new country. How has that changed so much over the last 60 or so years ago. Now if we say become an "American" we are seen as racially profiling? I sure hope that those who really think that illegal immigration is a good thing because we need to fill those jobs that "Americans" don't want to do, then hell with them. A job is a job. If you want to eat and have a family to feed, you'll take the shitty wage and the shitty job if the government was handing out the taxpayers money like it's candy.

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

They can fill the job just as good becoming legal. How exactly is it a benefit for an illegal to have a job in America? You think that just because they become legal, they will demand more money? That's a negative. There is no reason for anyone to be illegal in this country, except to take advantage of our system...

EDIT: I don't want this to sound like I'm bashing on PoorMansCamaro since I used his comments to write the below:

The spirit of this newly enacted law here in Alabama (Roll Tide) is to make sure our businesses are hiring personnel that are legally here. I will quote Mike Rowe in his address as saying 'The average laborer, electrician, plumber, tradesman, it 55 years old in Alabama.' There is no one that seems willing to do these type jobs. Now, what I've seen here in Alabama, there are a lot of businesses that are doing some shady things and hiring folks that are not here legally.

The benefits to being illegal and have a job? Well, sir, I pay social security. They don't. I pay medicare. They don't. I pay my federal and state taxes. They don't. I put my earned money back into the economy. Most of the illegals send it back home, therefore it is not reinvested back into the economy of America. That should offend anyone who sees a deduction in there hard earned pay that not everyone is on the same playing field, yet to most, it goes unnoticed. Will they demand more money? Don't know. But you start taxing their pay and their just making it beforehand; Yeah, they'll want more money.

There are different ways to look at laws such as these. You can say racial profiling all day long, but I disagree. This is a check on businesses just as a bar owner better have his liquor license and his bartenders have their ABC cards. Do laws such as these have a significant chance of being abused? Oh, hell yeah!

I'll treat a person as a person; with respect. I've taught my kids that. And if you think I'm blowing smoke, my wife of 23 years is Spanish. From Spain. Has had a permanent resident visa since 1994. (math is we lived in Germany when married and came to US in 1994) 2-3 years ago she applied for and received her citizenship. Is it difficult? Lot of running around and several visits to Dept of Homeland Security, but it's doable. Does it cost money? Absolutely!

I just want an even playing field. We all should. Do illegals get treated like shit by some employers ~ hell yeah! And it isn't right. People are people, period.

[garcmol]

And I'll add that the businesses doing the "shady" things is this. They pay crap to the illegal immigrant under the table. On the books he's not an employee and the business owner makes a larger profit. The benefit does go mostly to the business owner with this practice and the cash is going into his pocket.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by garcmol

And I'll add that the businesses doing the "shady" things is this. They pay crap to the illegal immigrant under the table. On the books he's not an employee and the business owner makes a larger profit. The benefit does go mostly to the business owner with this practice and the cash is going into his pocket.

Yep, when people are not doucmented properly, this is one of MANY illegal things that can happen.

[Hemlawk]

I know PLENTY of Americans milking the unemployment system. LAZY white trash...

Instead of fighting mexican immigrants, there needs to be a better system to convert them to citizens. Granted they might be here illegally, but they are WAY more productive than alot of people in our country. They just need to be on the books like everyone else...

[Padre]

We're going through this in Georgia.

I'm pastor of a church with more than 10,000 members. 90% Hispanic. We do about 600+ baptisms each year, all but 12 in Spanish. I have 1000 kids in our Sunday School, and ALL of them are perfectly bilingual.

A lot of things are being said that simply aren't true. In my church, the IRS came to us several years ago to offer a seminar for Hispanics on how to get Tax ID numbers so they could work legally and pay taxes. These immigrants came, undocumented but commited no crime to get here, and took the jobs, set down roots, and worked and raised their families. For some, this may be as long as 15-20 years ago. This is their home, they were invited, given jobs, and welcomed into the community. And now they can be deported for a traffic offense.

What I find are a lot of politicians hiding behind "rule of law" and "well, if you break the law...", but even though the letter of the intent of the law is pure as the angels, the effect is making our local PD and Deputies Immigration Enforcers. IOW, the politicians hide behind the "rule of law" for something that has always been a policy decision motivated by race. When the economy was good, let 'em come, and now that it's bad, who cares if we've tolerated them for decades, let's send 'em home...

Ironically, it was GWB who had the best plan: work permits (so they can get jobs and driver's licenses and insurance), back of the line for citizenship, and learn English and US Civics.

My town is 50% Hispanic, and they are generational (majority are citizens), but the simple-minded-solution folks don't care that they are destroying families and communities.

You should hope that most of this is declared a violation of the 4th Ammendment if you value your Constitutional Rights. Kids here who look Hispanic (skin color is the only way to tell) are being detained for hours if they have a driver's license (because they are citizens) but don't have documents (because they are not immigrants).

That's your future. Make sure you keep your "Made in the USA" card handy.

Padre Paul Williams, Párroco, Iglesia Católica de San José, Dalton GA

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by garcmol

EDIT: I don't want this to sound like I'm bashing on PoorMansCamaro since I used his comments to write the below:

The spirit of this newly enacted law here in Alabama (Roll Tide) is to make sure our businesses are hiring personnel that are legally here. I will quote Mike Rowe in his address as saying 'The average laborer, electrician, plumber, tradesman, it 55 years old in Alabama.' There is no one that seems willing to do these type jobs. Now, what I've seen here in Alabama, there are a lot of businesses that are doing some shady things and hiring folks that are not here legally.

The benefits to being illegal and have a job? Well, sir, I pay social security. They don't. I pay medicare. They don't. I pay my federal and state taxes. They don't. I put my earned money back into the economy. Most of the illegals send it back home, therefore it is not reinvested back into the economy of America. That should offend anyone who sees a deduction in there hard earned pay that not everyone is on the same playing field, yet to most, it goes unnoticed. Will they demand more money? Don't know. But you start taxing their pay and their just making it beforehand; Yeah, they'll want more money.

There are different ways to look at laws such as these. You can say racial profiling all day long, but I disagree. This is a check on businesses just as a bar owner better have his liquor license and his bartenders have their ABC cards. Do laws such as these have a significant chance of being abused? Oh, hell yeah!

I'll treat a person as a person; with respect. I've taught my kids that. And if you think I'm blowing smoke, my wife of 23 years is Spanish. From Spain. Has had a permanent resident visa since 1994. (math is we lived in Germany when married and came to US in 1994) 2-3 years ago she applied for and received her citizenship. Is it difficult? Lot of running around and several visits to Dept of Homeland Security, but it's doable. Does it cost money? Absolutely!

I just want an even playing field. We all should. Do illegals get treated like shit by some employers ~ hell yeah! And it isn't right. People are people, period.

I see your edit, but I want to make sure you understand that what you are saying is exactly what I mean. You took that sentence out of context. What you'd described as their benefit, is what I meant by taking advantage of our system.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by garcmol

The benefits to being illegal and have a job? Well, sir, I pay social security. They don't. I pay medicare. They don't. I pay my federal and state taxes. They don't. I put my earned money back into the economy. Most of the illegals send it back home, therefore it is not reinvested back into the economy of America. That should offend anyone who sees a deduction in there hard earned pay that not everyone is on the same playing field, yet to most, it goes unnoticed. Will they demand more money? Don't know. But you start taxing their pay and their just making it beforehand; Yeah, they'll want more money.

Most of that is not true. As I said, for decades the IRS has been giving them Tax ID's so they can pay Social Security. The IRS keeps it in a $20B slush fund, because most of those Hispanics will never be able to collect it. My town, Dalton, is a good example where assimilation can happen, as the generations of Hispanics have put down roots and ARE the local economy. Those who are treated as aliens and forced to live on the margins (many migrant farmers or construction workers) will not spend it in the local economy and will send it home, because WE WILL NOT LET THEM set any roots here, but we're happy for their cheap labor.

Padre

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Padre

WE WILL NOT LET THEM set any roots here, but we're happy for their cheap labor.

Padre

Who the hek is WE. There are many avenues for immigrants/illegals to become citizens. Is that too much to ask them to do? You make many assumptions about people who believe in the rule of law.