10 things you need to know right now about the CBA situation

[2ndgenz28]

best suggestion I have seen is the player form their own new league.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by wylde1

I think he pretty much nailed the point. Once a CBA is expired, that's it, there's nothing saying they have to use the last CBA as a starting point to negotiate the next one.

If the owners want to, they don't have to negotiate at all. It's their money, they invest how they see fit. If I went to my boss and said I want 50% of what you make and show me your books... you bet your ass I'd be on the street and he'd find someone else. That's how the world works, if they don't like it they can go play in Europe.

Basically your seeing it as "negotiation" between two equal parties. That's not the case at all, the players union is coming to the table asking for a chunk of the OWNERS money.

Are you part of a union? You don't have to answer that, i already know.

I'm not going to repeat what i've already posted. Learn what unions are and what they do...they negotiate how much they get paid...

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

BUT here is the biggest point of all. Each one of us on this forum has a job or had a job. Each job has a set of rules and regulations and requirements for that job plus a salary scale. We knew when we took our jobs what the pay was, the pay scale and what we could expect to earn, the longevity of our life for our jobs ( SEE MILITARY DOOR GUNNER or COAL MINER) and we either chose to take it or not knowing the dangers, and for whatever reason we chose to take it. SO NFL Players quit whining that I may get hurt, life expectency is 3 years yada yada yada, you know the risk and you take the money.

This.

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

because honestly, they probably can't do much else out in the real world. That's their problem. They got a free education. While I'm stuck having to pay for my sons. And that's fine, it's a good trade off and it's perfectly fair, but to then claim you are somehow being done wrong????? Sorry.

The owners already agreed in the last CBA to give over 60% of the total revenue. So now it's the players fault that they make 6 figures? Now the owners don't even give the players the light of day when a new CBA needs to be done when the players union asks for 50%, which is already a 10% cut from the last deal? And that was just a starting point...

Also, you should look up unions. They get to negotiate with the employer about how much they make...among other things. What the percentage is? I'm not sure, can't say that it is or isn't higher then 50%. Depends on the business. The NFL is run by 31 majority owners and has over 1600 STARTING players (does not include practice squad, etc). So how does it make sense to pay the players with a small piece of the pie, when they've already given up 60% previously?

It doesn't matter what the last CBA said or did. This is a new one. Like I said, the owners are just protecting their businesses. They were backed into a corner last time. They made a plan to put money aside for this, and it worked. The players are too stupid to do such a thing. The gestopo are less organized this time, but will still use their thug tactics to try and get it done.

I really hope and pray that the players end up with MUCH less, or nothing at all. I'd pay a thousand dollars out of my own pocket to see the owners cut all rosters and give all players 1 week to leave the union for a veteran draft. If you don't declare, you sit out for a year.

Originally Posted by Cbrenthus

Sorry if I don't shed a tear for them. They got a free ride to get a degree, if they majored in basket weaving and can't do anything else, then shame on them. I went to school, and now 10% of my after tax income goes to student loan payments. And, I worked hard and got some scholarships, as well as went to community for my AA first, to keep my costs down. I really don't care about some brat that makes 300K a year for 3 or 4 years, then is unemployed. They can save enough in those 3 or 4 years to do alot of things. Go back to school, open a business, whatever.

The problem is that they are alienating their fan base. I can't relate to someone making $300K and up and complaining that it isn't enough. I'm not on the owner's side either, I just think they should all shut up and play.

Like I said before. Let the business and salaries of the business take care of it's self. Throw the union out on it's ass.

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

that's just it. the players aren't complaining. They offered a deal LESS THAN what the previous deal was. The owners didn't even get close enough to sniff the paper. They already planned on a lockout. They already planned on screwing the fans.

THe plan they made was what they lacked during the last deal. Which is why the union got to BF them. Not this time.

And I can GAURANTEE you they haven't offered to take less. It's just spun to make you think that. NO WAY is a union gonna take less until FORCED to.

Originally Posted by CJ Man

If the players don't like it, then they should go play in the UFL.

Or go flip burgers.

Originally Posted by CJ Man

Check out Adrian Petersons comments,

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...at-nfl-owners/

Yeah he sure sounds like he knows what's going on!!

Oh and love how he compares the NFL labor situation to "Modern Day Slavery". Yeah if I can make millions playing a game, get million dollar endorsements, free food, clothes, medical for playing a game.....sign me up.

Have no problem calling the owners master.

It looks like with that "FREE" higher education Peterson received he failed study the whole slavery situation to get a better understanding of it.

That's just sad. I guess I shouldn't be surprized. I USED to like him too. If I were another player I'd have to ask him to please STFU.

Originally Posted by wylde1

I think he pretty much nailed the point. Once a CBA is expired, that's it, there's nothing saying they have to use the last CBA as a starting point to negotiate the next one.

If the owners want to, they don't have to negotiate at all. It's their money, they invest how they see fit. If I went to my boss and said I want 50% of what you make and show me your books... you bet your ass I'd be on the street and he'd find someone else. That's how the world works, if they don't like it they can go play in Europe.

Well, that's how the country USED to work. We are failing from this type of erosion. I for one would like to see it stop. We didn't get great by stripping our business owners of their freedoms.

Originally Posted by 2ndgenz28

best suggestion I have seen is the player form their own new league.

I'd LOVE to see this. They are too stupid to do it.

They'd have to have someone do it for them, and that someone would be way too smart for them. They'd end up right back where they are but with less money. Who'd own it? They players aren't gonna give anything back. They'd be fighting amongst themselves, and the prima donna Mannings, and Breez's would be hated, and make less money. Who would pay their salaries and how would it be divided? Who'd own the teams? OMG, what a cluster that would be....... I'd LOVE that.

[wylde1]

I used to be, I got out of it and am now in a management position where I work with union reps every single day. I know what unions do. They represent a body of workers as "one entity" on behalf of those workers. So that the partys they are "negotiating with" only have to deal with one "person" instead of talking to each individual worker. You seem to be missing the point where they are not the ones with the money. They are asking for a chunk of someone elses money to perform a service. The person with the money (the owners in this case) don't have to negotiate if they don't like the deal.

Just because its a union doesn't mean they have magical powers that can MAKE the owners invest in them. Contrary to what your union rep might have you believe.

[PoorMansCamaro]

I fail to see why the players should get punished for a free ride in college because of getting a scholarship for football. It's what they are good at.

And I understand the owners don't need to go off the old CBA, but to not even negotiate in the first place is baffling. And the owners are trying to protect themselves? from what? They will be millionaires/billionaires no matter what they do. The NFL is about as sure fire as you are going to get when it comes to making money. obviously the owners aren't afraid of no more NFL, they've prepared for a lockout long before any of the players even thought that would happen. And guess what, these owners are still millionaires/billionaires.

[wylde1]

I agree with PQ and think the owners are trying to set a precedent. They are trying to take back some of the power the union has (even if it's mostly percieved power). I think they planned a lockout for this purpose, and will be coming to the table with their own offer soon enough.

There are lots of people that get academic scholorships (free rides) that don't get the salaries or bargaining power a pro athlete does. I don't see it as punishing the players, I see it as a reality check.

you don't need 5 mil a year to play football. I work ALOT, if I made 1 mil, for 1 year I guarantee you I could invest it wisely enough to live comfortably and work very little for the rest of my life.

I've always complained about pro athlete salaries, and yes alot of it is jealousy, don't even get me started on baseball salaries.

*this is much like the napster epidemic with Metallica. it's an ethical question. Should you be upset over not being able to buy 4 lambos and a 10 million dollar house? or should you be happy with affording 1 lambo and a million dollar house? Both are pretty good, but you ask 100 people i bet it's almost 50/50

[PQ]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

...they negotiate how much they get paid...

Riiiight.

A little history brush-up may clear things up.

They can be violent and forceful. They can be corrupt. They are their own Government representing their own people. You see how they do? They make the owners into villains. Greedy devils who have no souls. And yet the greed is rampant. The difference, is the owners put up their possesions as risk. The union puts up NOTHING. It's just pathetic. It's theivery. It's extortion. They gain strength in monopolizing the jobs, and then bully their way into taking more of someone elses business profits. It's unethical in my opinion.

It really sucks, becasue some of these players are losing my respect forever. I'll never win at fantasy footbal again, because Manning, Brady, Peterson, Breeze and the like, are hypocrits and thugs. Theives. They made a deal and now they are backing out. These guys are under contract. But do you know why they won't play if the owners came out and said let's play anyway with no CBA? Becasue the union won't let them.

And the union calls it a lockout. To the general public, it's the owners who are the problem because they are gonna have a lockout. Well no shit. What choice do they have? They are having their businesses bullied from them.

God I'd love to see the owners just close up shop and watch the players try and salvage.

[PoorMansCamaro]

And the NFL isn't just like any other business. Sure, the structure is probably similar, but you can't just replace your workers with some joe schoe off the street. I pay my hard earned money to watch the best athletes play. And as a fan and someone who has his money invested in watching football, it pisses me off that the owners would just let a lockout happen without caring about where the money they are making comes from. They are fighting to make more money that they probably would never spend in the first place, to deprive fans from watching football.

I would love nothing more for the players to start their own league, with no owners. It'll teach them that making 5 billion instead of 4 isn't worth fighting for.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

I fail to see why the players should get punished for a free ride in college because of getting a scholarship for football. It's what they are good at.

How are they being punished though?

If they majored in underwater basketweaving, that's their problem. If they took their education seriously, they will be just fine and got a free edu out of it.

Let the market govern the economics of the business of football. If the owners don't pay well, the product will suffer and they'll have to pay more. They don't have to play football. 90% of this country has no union. The market takes care of its self.

If the people at Lowes are paid like shit and rude and unknowlegable, then you go shop at Home Depot. And Lowes will start to hurt. So they will have to pay more for better and more educated employees. Takes care of it's self.

When you disturb that natural balance, you get an unnatural result.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by wylde1

I agree with PQ and think the owners are trying to set a precedent. They are trying to take back some of the power the union has (even if it's mostly percieved power). I think they planned a lockout for this purpose, and will be coming to the table with their own offer soon enough.

There are lots of people that get academic scholorships (free rides) that don't get the salaries or bargaining power a pro athlete does. I don't see it as punishing the players, I see it as a reality check.

you don't need 5 mil a year to play football. I work ALOT, if I made 1 mil, for 1 year I guarantee you I could invest it wisely enough to live comfortably and work very little for the rest of my life.

I've always complained about pro athlete salaries, and yes alot of it is jealousy, don't even get me started on baseball salaries.

*this is much like the napster epidemic with Metallica. it's an ethical question. Should you be upset over not being able to buy 4 lambos and a 10 million dollar house? or should you be happy with affording 1 lambo and a million dollar house? Both are pretty good, but you ask 100 people i bet it's almost 50/50

same thing could be said about owners. lets face it, their business isn't in any kind of trouble. They aren't going into bankruptcy.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

.....you can't just replace your workers with some joe schoe off the street.

Why not? If the product suffers, you'll have to pay more. And Joe Schmo ain't gonna be playing for long. Manning and Brady will be right back in their when they have to sell insurance for a living.

The problem, however, is that the union got involved in the first place.

[ron10]

think the fans should go on strike for cheaper ticket prices.we are the ones that lose because we have to pay for all this b*****t.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by PQ

How are they being punished though?

If they majored in underwater basketweaving, that's their problem. If they took their education seriously, they will be just fine and got a free edu out of it.

Let the market govern the economics of the business of football. If the owners don't pay well, the product will suffer and they'll have to pay more. They don't have to play football. 90% of this country has no union. The market takes care of its self.

If the people at Lowes are paid like shit and rude and unknowlegable, then you go shop at Home Depot. And Lowes will start to hurt. So they will have to pay more for better and more educated employees. Takes care of it's self.

When you disturb that natural balance, you get an unnatural result.

its not that easy. especially with the job market right now. if you were highering a person to be an accountant (just for example), would you hire a ex football player that hasn't been in school for 4 or 5 years, someone coming straight from college in that field, or someone that got a degree in that field and has 4 or 5 years experience. I'm positive the first choice or the second choice will be the football player.

basically, what i'm saying is that i don't agree fully with the owners because they are fighting for basically nothing. They aren't in any kind of trouble. They were making a great deal of money. Sure, there are some players making a butt load as well, but again, that's not the majority. It was pretty much win/win for everyone as a whole. So why try and screw essentially the hand that feeds them, the fans?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

lets face it, their business isn't in any kind of trouble. They aren't going into bankruptcy.

So, because they aren't going into bankruptcy right away, they should have to risk more?

Wait.... THEY are the owners. Again, players have NO risk that they are not compensted for. Under contract even. Boy, I sure would have liked a contract, instead of a month to month salary or hourly pay when I was working for someone else.

Maybe it's that inmportant to them that their great great grandchildren have a easy and comfortable life? Doesn't matter the reason. It's THEIRS and they should be able to do as they please as far as salary.