The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

If they were adjustable, I must have missed the adjustment. They appeared to be struts, shocks and springs. If I am missing something, please correct me.

Both the Camaro and Mustang are 'modified' in the sense that ALL Saleens, Roushes and Shelbies (?) are modified.

The suspension is adjustable.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Very true

Have you guys heard any kind of ideas/rumors at the ford camp?

The only rumor I have heard is a 36k starting point for the regular version of the Boss.

[Sax1031]

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the...-seca-edition/

If you watch Leno talking about the car around the 4:40 mark Jay makes a comment about a special key for the laguna seca version. At that point the representative shuts him off and tells him that is for another time. It definitely sounds like Leno was let in on the secret.

This is what I was talking about the rumor with the boss and the "red" key allowing the car to rev to ~8200rpm.

[garagelogic]

I've heard the same rumors. Apparently, it's a variation of Ford's "MyKey" technology which will allow Boss owners to unlock additional performance from the vehicle. Likely, there is a calibration that allows the car to meet the EPA standards required for a street-legal vehicle and another "off-road only" calibration for the track. It very well could allow a higher rev limit as well as some tweaking to the traction/stability control system. We'll all just have to wait and see.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

I've heard the same rumors. Apparently, its variation of Ford's "MyKey" technology which will allow Boss owners to unlock additional performance from the vehicle. Likely, there is a calibration that allows the car to meet the EPA standards required for a street-legal vehicle and another "off-road only" calibration for the track. It very well could allow a higher rev limit as well as some tweaking to the traction/stability control system. We'll all just have to wait and see.

Exactly what I have heard. The big thing with the rumor is that it would raise the rev limiter to 8200rpm. It is definitely a wait and see type thing.

[8cd03gro]

Oooooh this is so exciting!

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

That said, for a road course car I still consider this ordinary. The Saleen ships with coilovers and camber plates making the Boss suspension or Shelby for that matter ordinary.

if im not mistaken there are still ferraris that dont come with coilovers. also i am pretty sure a coilover setup doesnt offer any inherent performance advantage over an "ordinary" suspension.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

I agree that on uneven pavement an IRS equipped car does ride smoother. However I'm not sure exactly where you drive, I very rarely come across uneven road surfaces. I do know the midwest states tend to have some really junk roads do to the weather among other things. This scenario I can completely understand. An IRS vs. a SRA on an older road in the southern states is almost unnoticeable. Of course there are many other components that effect the handling of a car. The 2012 Camaro without a doubt will get a revised suspension to make it more competitive with the 2011 Mustang. The 2012 SS will probably not get "some" suspension bits from the Z28. By your definition of faaaar better, just how much is far better?
The Camaro should handle FAR better then the 2011 Mustang. Yes the Mustang has a heavily reworked SRA, but it's still a SRA. In the automotive industry no one stands still. The 2012 Camaro as most think will be GM's turn again...but Ford will probably fire back in 2013. However Ford could also have something planned for the 2012. Both cars are always being improved this is basic knowledge mister gm.

LOL!!! Thats funny, I am no Gm fanboy, and your post is still wrong. Just because the camaro has an IRS does not mean it should handle far better than the 2011 mustang. The camaro IRS does mean on on surfaces that are not butter smooth, you can put the power down easier without worrying about it haveing the tendancy to hop around as with a SRA. But the way the camaro suspension is set, it is baised towards comfort than road course handleing and has the tendancy towards understeer. Also though I hate using mag rag test as some sort of ultimate proof which they are not. Road and Track has already done a comparison test at the track between the camaro and the 5.0 mustang. The lap times were only seperated by .1 of a second. They are about the same in performace. The Camaro has a better powerband and more low in torque out of the corners, while the mustang has quicker corner speed. Also out of curiosity what makes you think the camaro SS will not get any suspension bits from the z/28?? its a no brainer. I await your non bias and totaly objectional opinion.

[Americanmuscle11]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Dude...what is your expectation for a 3800-3900 lb vehicle that starts at 30k?

.1 second difference isnt competitive? any revision whatsoever will make it surpass the 2011 mustang GT.

The camaro should handle far better than the mustang GT? so you are saying it should also handle far better than an M3 for less than half the price?

Just because the camaro has IRS doesnt mean it should automatically outhandle/turn better times than the mustang. Yes IRS is better but in this case not good enough to overcome nearly 300 pounds when the two cars are almost identical in strait line performance. I really dont undertand the point you are trying to make when the camaro has superb handling for a 38-3900 lb car in this price range.

You either dont think the mustang or M3 is very good and/or you dont realize what you are saying...

My expectation? Let's get a couple things straight. No Camaro SS starts at $30k. A Base 1SS is $31,995. Any revision huh? What? Any revision without a complete redesign will put it on the same level as the Mustang. It won't be out handling it unless it loses a lot of weight in combination with a stiffer suspension which will compromise ride quality just a bit. It'll be one or the other. The second one more or less. Far better was in response to the others posters post. And you know what as long as you bring that up...yes it should. GM set out to build the better car and they missed the mark.

Far better then the M3 for half the price? No not far better then the M3. but as good as the M3 for half the price...certainly. Ford did it with a SRA. When it can out handle the Mustang then GM can start looking at an M3 for competition. Why shouldn't it out handle and turn in better times with a system more advantageous in this area of performance versus against one that isn't?

GM had their priorities slightly skewed when developing this car. They figured the advantage in ride quality would be matched in the advantage in handling against the Mustang. However Ford didn't sit still and as a result the system that could of been better overall, really only proved to be marginally better in an area that isn't most desirable in a performance car.

The Manual cars are almost identical in a drag race. The L99 get's walked even by a auto GT.

The Mustang is GREAT. The M3 is even better. You and a few other Camaro guys don't seem to understand that the Camaro isn't as good as you perceive it to be. Brand loyalty issues. Problem is you will never admit Ford did a better job with a system that really should not be better.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

My expectation? Let's get a couple things straight. No Camaro SS starts at $30k. A Base 1SS is $31,995. Any revision huh? What? Any revision without a complete redesign will put it on the same level as the Mustang. It won't be out handling it unless it loses a lot of weight in combination with a stiffer suspension which will compromise ride quality just a bit. It'll be one or the other. The second one more or less. Far better was in response to the others posters post. And you know what as long as you bring that up...yes it should. GM set out to build the better car and they missed the mark.

Far better then the M3 for half the price? No not far better then the M3. but as good as the M3 for half the price...certainly. Ford did it with a SRA. When it can out handle the Mustang then GM can start looking at an M3 for competition. Why shouldn't it out handle and turn in better times with a system more advantageous in this area of performance versus against one that isn't?

GM had their priorities slightly skewed when developing this car. They figured the advantage in ride quality would be matched in the advantage in handling against the Mustang. However Ford didn't sit still and as a result the system that could of been better overall, really only proved to be marginally better in an area that isn't most desirable in a performance car.

The Manual cars are almost identical in a drag race. The L99 get's walked even by a auto GT.

The Mustang is GREAT. The M3 is even better. You and a few other Camaro guys don't seem to understand that the Camaro isn't as good as you perceive it to be. Brand loyalty issues. Problem is you will never admit Ford did a better job with a system that really should not be better.

Wow, what else needs to be said, there is so much fail in that post I am not going to even try to respond to all of it. A. The camaro was aimed at beating the 2010 mustang (which it did) and ford responded for 2011, chevy will probaly do the same for 2012. The mustang is a great car now (Finaly) What I would point out is that the gap is not as large as you are claiming to be, also have you forgotten already that it is not just what type of rear suspension is used that affect the performance of the car like I said in my previous posts?? They are about the same when all is said and done. You know what, why am I even responding to your, I am starting to think you are just Trolling, If you are just on a this site dedicated to the camaro just to argure that "My car is Better than Your car" then you should not be here. Go to a mustang forum.

[Americanmuscle11]

LOL!!! Thats funny, I am no Gm fanboy, and your post is still wrong. Just because the camaro has an IRS does not mean it should handle far better than the 2011 mustang. The camaro IRS does mean on on surfaces that are not butter smooth, you can put the power down easier without worrying about it haveing the tendancy to hop around as with a SRA. But the way the camaro suspension is set, it is baised towards comfort than road course handleing and has the tendancy towards understeer. Also though I hate using mag rag test as some sort of ultimate proof which they are not. Road and Track has already done a comparison test at the track between the camaro and the 5.0 mustang. The lap times were only seperated by .1 of a second. They are about the same in performace. The Camaro has a better powerband and more low in torque out of the corners, while the mustang has quicker corner speed. Also out of curiosity what makes you think the camaro SS will not get any suspension bits from the z/28?? its a no brainer. I await your non bias and totaly objectional opinion.

You make absolutely zero sense. Why shouldn't an IRS perform better in EVERY aspect then a SRA? It's an IRS. "Butter smooth" is that a new term for road surface testing? No road is butter smooth. And on road's that aren't exactly smooth the Mustang doesn't tend to "Hop" around. In fact it hooks relatively well. So the Camaro is set for comfort? That's why it doesn't handle as good? Got it.They are not about the same in performance. The Camaro isn't as fast around a track. Why would the Camaro Z28 share some suspension bits with the lower end SS? That's defeating part of the purpose of the Z28. Will the 2012 SS have a revised suspension yup. Will it share it's components with the Z28 no.

Originally Posted by truth411

Wow, what else needs to be said, there is so much fail in that post I am not going to even try to respond to all of it. A. The camaro was aimed at beating the 2010 mustang (which it did) and ford responded for 2011, chevy will probaly do the same for 2012. The mustang is a great car now (Finaly) What I would point out is that the gap is not as large as you are claiming to be, also have you forgotten already that it is not just what type of rear suspension is used that affect the performance of the car like I said in my previous posts?? They are about the same when all is said and done. You know what, why am I even responding to your, I am starting to think you are just Trolling, If you are just on a this site dedicated to the camaro just to argure that "My car is Better than Your car" then you should not be here. Go to a mustang forum.

When did the 2010 Camaro out handle the 2010 Mustang? The Camaro did beat it in acceleration, braking and the 1/4. The gap isn't large at all. I never said it was, BUT A tenth of a second is losing. Of course there is more that effects performance then the rear suspension. Your generalizing about proven numbers. The cars are NOT the same in performance. I don't know why you responded to me. Your post's are full of opinion and you're generalizing the cars in terms of performance. I'm here to talk about the Camaro and it's competition with numbers. What are you here for?

[Toyaholic]

Originally Posted by EnvyTerra

I think two of the same "types" of cars are a better comparison since not everyone can afford everything it's more accurate to stick to the same body, chassis, etc... the physical stuff is what you compare on cars, value/cost can be subjective because there can be people who don't care what either cost.

If someone makes a 60k minivan it doesn't mean it should be compared with a 60k mazda miata. totally different type of car for a different purpose.

Agreed, it should be the same body type, although I do like to to see some similarity in pricing.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

LOL!!! Thats funny, I am no Gm fanboy, and your post is still wrong. Just because the camaro has an IRS does not mean it should handle far better than the 2011 mustang. The camaro IRS does mean on on surfaces that are not butter smooth, you can put the power down easier without worrying about it haveing the tendancy to hop around as with a SRA. But the way the camaro suspension is set, it is baised towards comfort than road course handleing and has the tendancy towards understeer. Also though I hate using mag rag test as some sort of ultimate proof which they are not. Road and Track has already done a comparison test at the track between the camaro and the 5.0 mustang. The lap times were only seperated by .1 of a second. They are about the same in performace. The Camaro has a better powerband and more low in torque out of the corners, while the mustang has quicker corner speed. Also out of curiosity what makes you think the camaro SS will not get any suspension bits from the z/28?? its a no brainer. I await your non bias and totaly objectional opinion.

You make absolutely zero sense. Why shouldn't an IRS perform better in EVERY aspect then a SRA? It's an IRS. "Butter smooth" is that a new term for road surface testing? No road is butter smooth. And on road's that aren't exactly smooth the Mustang doesn't tend to "Hop" around. In fact it hooks relatively well. So the Camaro is set for comfort? That's why it doesn't handle as good? Got it.They are not about the same in performance. The Camaro isn't as fast around a track. Why would the Camaro Z28 share some suspension bits with the lower end SS? That's defeating part of the purpose of the Z28. Will the 2012 SS have a revised suspension yup. Will it share it's components with the Z28 no.





When did the 2010 Camaro out handle the 2010 Mustang? The Camaro did beat it in acceleration, braking and the 1/4. The gap isn't large at all. I never said it was, BUT A tenth of a second is losing. Of course there is more that effects performance then the rear suspension. Your generalizing about proven numbers. The cars are NOT the same in performance. I don't know why you responded to me. Your post's are full of opinion and you're generalizing the cars in terms of performance. I'm here to talk about the Camaro and it's competition with numbers. What are you here for?

massive facepalm, not even going to bother with that one. Also since you basically admited your main purpose of being here is to argue that car "A" is better than car "B" you probaly should not be here. IM done fell free to make all the exaggerated and false post you want now.

edit.. I see no need to repeating myself. it is more than just the rear suspention that affects the handling of a car. the camaro at presant is tuned towards understeer. Also I noticed you admited that lap times are only separated by .1 of a sec. yet you say they are not about the same performance wise, interesting logic bro.

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I just found the Ford press release.

Suspension and steering
In keeping with the Boss mandate to provide the best-handling Mustang ever, the already strong Mustang GT suspension system has been further refined. Higher-rate coil springs on all four corners, stiffer suspension bushings and a larger-diameter rear stabilizer bar all contribute to the road racing mission, and Boss models are lowered by 11 millimeters at the front and 1 millimeter at the rear versus the Mustang GT. The real key to handling, though, is in the adjustable shocks and struts, standard on all Boss Mustang models.

“We’ve given drivers five settings for their shocks,” says Brent Clark, supervisor of the Mustang vehicle dynamics team. “One is the softest, two is the factory setting and five is the firmest, and we’ve provided a wide range of adjustment. A customer can drive to the track on setting two, crank it up to five for improved response on the track, then dial down to one for a more relaxed ride home. What’s unique is that drivers will find – thanks to the way the suspension works as a complete system – the softest setting isn’t too loose and the firmest setting isn’t too controlled; each step just provides additional levels of control.”

Also unique is the method of shock adjustment. Ditching the weight and complexity of electronic wizardry, the Mustang team opted for traditional race-style hands-on adjustability – similar to the Gabriel shocks available on the original Boss 302.

“The shock adjustment is right at the top of the shock tower, built into the rod and easily accessible from under the hood or inside the trunk,” says Clark. “You just take a small flat-head screwdriver, turn the adjustment screw between one and five, and head back out onto the track.”

I will try to find out of this is a single bound or single rebound or fixed ratio adjustment. If some one else knows, please post up.

That said, for a road course car I still consider this ordinary. The Saleen ships with coilovers and camber plates making the Boss suspension or Shelby for that matter ordinary.

have you driven the boss? not to call you out, but your judging a car by the impression of the suspension, you were miss-informed about.

about the saleen, din't you say you modified the saleen?