How did Ford get 400hp+

[Sax1031]

I think the all new head design is talking about Ford's new 4v heads for the 5.0. I don't think it means Saleen is making heads for the DOHC 5.0.

I could be wrong though. But it seems like when they say all new head design, they are talking about Ford's new 5.0 heads.

And optimized accessory drive system is basically an underdrive pulley kit.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by bigearl

Does a 'reworked accessory drive system' and 'a new head design' count as bolt-ons?

I guess I always thought of bolt-ons as CAI, Headers and exhaust changes, and a tune? As soon as you start reworking heads then it seems that you've moved into open season for engine mods.

I just think this is all premature. I guess I shouldn't be bumping it, but it seems like it should get locked until September and then reopened after you see some actual owners putting up before and after dynos. If you want to speculate for fun that's cool I guess, as long as you realize you're just speculating really.

sms has pullies, cai, and catback. tune? im sure...lol

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by assasinator

sms has pullies, cai, and catback. tune? im sure...lol

I don't understand this statement?

I meant my question honestly- it sounded like it was more than what most people think of as bolt-ons and I described what I thought of as bolt ons- but I could be wrong.

[Craig]

What he's saying is the SMS car does NOT have new heads. The SMS statement is definitely poorly worded and confusing. They are actually just referring to the all new head design from Ford for this engine. The only actual changes made are the bolt-on parts previously mentioned. The heads are untouched.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by LibLoather

...out of a 5.0 liter engine in the 2011 Mustang and it took GM 6.2 liters to do the same?

That's like asking how the mustang can run a 12.8 second quarter mile on 19 inch rims and it takes the Camaro 20 inch rims to do the same!!!

The numbers don't make any difference.

[KILLER74Z28]

Originally Posted by LibLoather

...out of a 5.0 liter engine in the 2011 Mustang and it took GM 6.2 liters to do the same?

:bangdesk:

[2010 SSRS]

Originally Posted by kunkelz28

Torque !!!!!! It means you could have fat girls in your car and it will still be fast

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LibLoather

...out of a 5.0 liter engine in the 2011 Mustang and it took GM 6.2 liters to do the same?

hp/L is probably the most useless 'performance' stat in existence. People always find two similarly powerful engines and wonder why the big one 'needs' to be so big. Accusations of incompetence or wastefulness often spring up. But this ignores a much bigger picture. There are more design considerations made than just 'how much power can we get out of X.X L?"

hp/$, hp/lb (for car or engine), and torque/L are all a lot more significant than hp/L. I don't know how much a 5.0 costs, but I can gaurentee it won't be less than the ~$6500 for an LS3. It won't be lighter either, dispite being 'smaller' (externally, a DOHC is actually bigger than a OHV design). It does generate more torque/L, but the gap there is much less than the hp/L difference. Speaking of torque, the LS3's advantage is across the entire rpm range. From idle to redline, it is always making more torque.

If I was building a car from the ground up, and I had a choice of 410-430 hp V8's from Chevy, Ford, and BMW I'd take a 5.0L Ford over a 4.0L BMW , but I'd rather have an LS3 over either of them. A car doesn't care how many hp/L the engine cranks out. The total output matters. The engines weight matters. The torque curve matters. The cost matters. In all 4 of those categories, the LS3 is superior.

[bigearl]

HP per liter is to some extent simply a measurement of where your car redlines. I would agree that it's kind of useless when discussing muscle car engines-because face people talk about HP, but TQ is what makes muscle cars interesting. And yes, HP/$ is clearly important for us regular joes on a Camaro forum. However at the extremes, HP/L can get pretty exciting (may I direct your attention to the Ferrari 458?). So I wouldn't say it's a useless stat, just not particularly germaine to Mustang v Camaro.

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by bigearl

HP per liter is to some extent simply a measurement of where your car redlines. I would agree that it's kind of useless when discussing muscle car engines-because face people talk about HP, but TQ is what makes muscle cars interesting. And yes, HP/$ is clearly important for us regular joes on a Camaro forum. However at the extremes, HP/L can get pretty exciting (may I direct your attention to the Ferrari 458?). So I wouldn't say it's a useless stat, just not particularly germaine to Mustang v Camaro.

I don't think HP per liter is completely useless, look at F1 cars, with their 2.4l V8's getting upwards of 700hp 'no replacement for displacement', I guess they didn't get that memo lol

[Baldilocks01SS]

Those modular V8's are huge regardless of their displacement. Take up a lot more space than the Gen III/IV engines. They also have more moving parts which means more things can go wrong.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Unfair

I don't think HP per liter is completely useless, look at F1 cars, with their 2.4l V8's getting upwards of 700hp 'no replacement for displacement', I guess they didn't get that memo lol

and the car weighs how much?

and the engine costs how much?

and that engine is not street legal?

and there are number of LSX motors making over 1000 HP

and that F1 engine is tapped to it's limit of reliability VS power?

You don't honestly mean to say that you could put that engine in a street car with an average joe driving it and expect it to survive do you?

[Unfair]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

and the car weighs how much?

and the engine costs how much?

and that engine is not street legal?

and there are number of LSX motors making over 1000 HP

and that F1 engine is tapped to it's limit of reliability VS power?

You don't honestly mean to say that you could put that engine in a street car with an average joe driving it and expect it to survive do you?

I was just posting HP per liter not all that other stuff. I am impressed by F1 cars and the power they put out with such small engines, I didn't get into the car at all, just the engine.

No coffee today? jeez

[bigearl]

If you are saying that me and Unfair are the same account, we're not. I realize it's a huge difference in dollars. My only point was it does get interesting in the extreme examples, and every year they seem to get more HP out of a liter of gas (my extreme example was the Ferrari 458).

Also when you think about it, "no replacement for displacement" really means there are more liters of gas to squeeze power out of. So at the end of the day, HP/L really ends up being the biggest stat of all if you are modding your engine. You want more liters to get your HP out of.