Did anyone else just see the story on Toyota on NBC?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Well, I guess while your collective attention is directed at flaming me, you can't be posting assinine comments simaltaneously...

Since the beginning of this royal fiasco, I have NOT defended Toyota...I've simply tried to bring some "balance" to some of the glee expressed here...glee involving deaths, as you now so pontificatingly want to remind us of, after "rubbing salt" and various other compounds on Toyota AND GM products and customers... Makes you sound like a Senator, for God's sake...a typical self-righteous hypocritical Senator from the Great State of Confusion...

And where, exactly, does NHTSA come into play in this "theatre of the absurd?"

Fact is...and yes, it IS a FACT...ALL auto Manufacturers have "skeletons", past and present, and will in the future. So continue with your pitiful salt-rubbing glee...while you can...before the "next great auto scandal" arrives at YOUR favorite Brand's doorstep...because it surely will...

That's NOT my opinion, that too is FACT...

For those NOT on salt-free diets...http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62995

Nobody has said they are happy with the deaths. Not one of us. Have some lost sight of that at times? Yes. But the deaths are TOYOTAS FAULT. TOYOTA is to blame. Going after politicians is a strawman. Regardless of what their motivations could possibly be, it does not change the fact that Toyota has allowed problems with its vehicles to cause needless deaths of owners. By hindering NHTSA investigations, by delaying and reducing recalls and bracing about the money they saved by doing this, by blaming suppliers, by blaming customers, and ultimately by allowing defective designs to be sold. THAT is the issue. You seem to think that this is some sort government manipulation of the market. Who has lost sight of the deaths this has caused?

Also, how is offering incentives 'rubbing salt in the wound'? You must know they have offered incentives to jump brands before. And did they say anything like 'buy our cars, they won't kill you' or make any mention of Toyota's problem? No. Because they know what you and I know, that if you play with fire prepare to be burnt. Since they know this, they haven't made mention of it and are probably very worried that they could be next.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Also, how is offering incentives 'rubbing salt in the wound'?

Oh, I don't know...how about because that's what YOU said?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62995

Post #6...

"Why use a little when you can use a LOT?"

The only thing missing was a "dancing" icon.

There is NOT a major world-wide auto Manufacturer in biz today who hasn't had vehicles suspected of causing injury or death, directly or indirectly, at one time or another in "modern times"...

The undeniable proliferation of legal actions would be the proof of that...

And my TOYOTA...Moving Forward...Unintentionally quip was MY proof to you that "balance" IS present. Some, back, would be refreshing, here...

Originally Posted by DGthe3

You must know they have offered incentives to jump brands before. And did they say anything like 'buy our cars, they won't kill you' or make any mention of Toyota's problem? No. Because they know what you and I know, that if you play with fire prepare to be burnt. Since they know this, they haven't made mention of it and are probably very worried that they could be next.

"Incentives": NEVER for a single competitive Brand...NEVER!

"Buy our cars...": Thankfully, the ad writers aren't TOTALLY Brand-blind, as we are seeing, here...

"Playing with fire": So you agree with me? We're NOW making progress...

[Ghost of Vincent Price]

There was a round of toyota commercials that pretty much said your american car isnt even worth trading in..as they were all smashing their own cars for an excuse to buy a toyota...all the cars and trucks were american btw.

Phuck toyota and toyoda. I hope nobody ever buys a car from them again.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Oh, I don't know...how about because that's what YOU said?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62995

Post #6...

"Why use a little when you can use a LOT?"

The only thing missing was a "dancing" icon.

There is NOT a major world-wide auto Manufacturer in biz today who hasn't had vehicles suspected of causing injury or death, directly or indirectly, at one time or another in "modern times"...

The undeniable proliferation of legal actions would be the proof of that...

And my TOYOTA...Moving Forward...Unintentionally quip was MY proof to you that "balance" IS present. Some, back, would be refreshing, here...

Ah, I see now. Why don't you look over my entire post history on the matter and not just a quick jab that I made. Such as when I called BS on the floormats being the cause of the problem. Or even in this thread where I state and restate the very real safety concerns about this problem. For a very long time I've believed that Toyota isn't some god-like company who can do no wrong. This is vindication of my position. I am absolutely disgusted with the accusation that I am happy people have died. I am happy that the masses are seeing Toyota for what it really is. It is tragic that it took these deaths to grab the publics attention. But whats worse is that Toyota actively avoided fixing the problem, and the bean counters were praised for it. I am horrified that engineers (I am educated as an engineer) would turn a blind eye to such massive problems and ignore implementing fail safe mechanisms for vital systems. I am furious that the NHTSA didn't call them on it sooner. And I am in disbelief that despite all this, there are members of the public willing to defend Toyota. When GM recalls 8.5 million vehicles because they screwed up on making their cars failsafe and I don't attack them, call me a hypocrite.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I am absolutely disgusted with the accusation that I am happy people have died.

Dragoneye raised this issue...from "where" he drew this conclusion, you'll have to ask him...

I, too, am disgusted as well...

But, unfortunately, Toyota is NOT alone in this very dark and stark realization...and THAT is my point.

As to "salt", it's most effective on thin skin...after misinterpretation...something "engineers" should always avoid without ALL the "hard data"...

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by Archangel

my girlfriend has a 2009 camry and they told her that they couldn't do anything till the car created the problem...WHAT! thats crap..."we wont fix this potentially life threatening problem that you car has until it actually happens but thank you for purchasing at your local toyota dealer we are committed to customer service"......

Is the GEN 6 Camry on the recall list? My understanding is that the ones that are affected are the Japanese built Camry's not the US built ones. Not 100% sure about that. Here is the vin lookup though. http://www.toyota.com/recall/

Also this too affects GM, there is the partnership with Toyota. See the Pontiac Vibe on this list.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nht...earSelect=2010

[SleepWarz]

Thats if you dont consider the vibe a t0yota

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Dragoneye raised this issue...from "where" he drew this conclusion, you'll have to ask him...

Out of thin air. The very thought that someone might try to defend toyota makes my skin crawl....

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

Thats if you dont consider the vibe a t0yota

Unfortunately...it is. GM made the mistake of letting "them" design most of the car. It's more a rebadged toyota than it is a rebadged Pontiac.

[a_Username]

Is LOWDOWN, Mr. Toyoda? Like honestly I've never seen so much low-ended logical arguments from one person that seeks to justify the deaths of ~40 people.

[OUR72GTO]

Originally Posted by esperman

oh yeah...go google Ford Explorer roll overs.

Or Ford Pinto gas tanks .................

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Dragoneye raised this issue...from "where" he drew this conclusion, you'll have to ask him...

I, too, am disgusted as well...

But, unfortunately, Toyota is NOT alone in this very dark and stark realization...and THAT is my point.

As to "salt", it's most effective on thin skin...after misinterpretation...something "engineers" should always avoid without ALL the "hard data"...

You're right they all have skeletons... But the Big 3's skeletons werent KILLING PEOPLE. I've owned a lot of GM cars built over the last 30 years. Most of them were pieces of shit in some way or another. But one thing they had in common... They all start, stop, and go in all 4 directions, safely. The lights may crap out or the radio blow up, but at least I am not plowing into an embankment at 90 mph.

Originally Posted by esperman

oh yeah...go google Ford Explorer roll overs.

Originally Posted by OUR72GTO

Or Ford Pinto gas tanks .................

Both horrible problems, and the Pinto one was absolutely equivalent to this issue, but that was over 30 years ago. The Explorer problem was found to NOT be a design defect on Fords part AND the investigation basically found that the reason so many people died is because the Explorer was so popular with all drivers and people SUCK at driving. Yeah they didn't put that on the front page of the news because it wasn't sensational enough.

[Ghost of Vincent Price]

My wife was driving my 03 explorer when the front driver side wheel almost fell off. Apparently they have a problem with lugs snapping for no reason. 2 broke and losened 2 lugnuts off. The only thing holding the wheel on was 3 studs with one lug nut. That really pissed me off.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Like honestly I've never seen so much low-ended logical arguments from one person that seeks to justify the deaths of ~40 people.

This would be a PRIME example of "asinine" posting...obviously, there's a future for you at Fox News...

The Ford "Exploder" issue was determined to be a significant tire pressure "differential" between the Firestone-spec'd "recommendation", and Ford's comfort/handling "recommendation". Almost all of those fatal incidents occurred in the Desert Southwest and European Middle East under extremely high ambient temps, traveling at sustained highway speeds while "loaded", thus creating/exceeding maximum "safe" tire temps. None occurred in Canada, for instance... This did NOT occur 30 years ago...but it DID lead to the demise of Firestone's independence... Ford soldiers on, currently the "media darling" because they didn't stick their hands in Bush's/Obama's/Harper's pockets... See how "connecting dots" can result in all manner of unintended actions, "worthy" or otherwise?

As to trying to create some form of "Washington Conspiricy"...no, not here. Washington, and it's minions, don't need my "help"...

So...how's everyone enjoying their CAMAROS?!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Vincent Price

My wife was driving my 03 explorer when the front driver side wheel almost fell off. Apparently they have a problem with lugs snapping for no reason. 2 broke and losened 2 lugnuts off. The only thing holding the wheel on was 3 studs with one lug nut. That really pissed me off.

SOunds more to me like what happened to my brown vic, had the brakes changed and the mechanic didn't get one of the wheels oon tight because the airtank for the airgun he was using apparently lost pressure. Not the cars fault.