Ford anounces new 2017 F-150 RAPTOR: Twin Turbo V6, 500lbs lighter, 10 speed

[crysalis_01]

So...because I'm the curious type, how did we get to where we are now from a discussion on the upcoming Raptor?

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Which part of my post is "wrong"? Please do tell. FACT: Ford Motor Company sells more pickups to rental companies than GM (nearly 2X in 2013). FACT: GM sells 9+million automobiles worldwide under many monikers vs FoMoCo's 6+ million under 2 monikers. Sorry it's not "fair" in your eyes. People choose to buy far more GM products and they are willing to pay more for them as evidenced by ATP. FoMoCo can sell under 10 names or 1, it won't change the fact that they fall 3 million short of their biggest competitor.

Is it a bad thing that Ford sells more to rental companies? What criteria do you think the rental companies use in deciding which vehicles to purchase?

[Blk-Ice]

I'll be in the window for a new truck around the release time....I think I'm liking this!

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

GM shows Colorado ZR2 Concept:

People: Yeah!!! WOOOOOO !!! Sign me up! I'm a buyer!

GM: Nah

That's about right.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by trademaster

Is it a bad thing that Ford sells more to rental companies? What criteria do you think the rental companies use in deciding which vehicles to purchase?

Price. Fleet sales have significantly lower transaction prices than retail. The absolute difference in what Ford sells to rental companies offsets the very small advantage Ford had in F-Series sales last year. But hey, at least they can say "best selling truck in America*"

*1.6% margin thanks to Thrifty

Funny they never mention how badly they are beat in every other segment by double digit differences.

[khell86]

It seems to be a wash in most of the other segments. GM beats Ford in the compact/subcompact segments, but ford owns the midsize segment.

Chevy then owns the large car segment, but then ford owns the small and midsize suv/cuv segment which GM controlling the large suv segment.

So double digits is a bit of a stretch eh?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Which part of my post is "wrong"? Please do tell. FACT: Ford Motor Company sells more pickups to rental companies than GM (nearly 2X in 2013). FACT: GM sells 9+million automobiles worldwide under many monikers vs FoMoCo's 6+ million under 2 monikers. Sorry it's not "fair" in your eyes. People choose to buy far more GM products and they are willing to pay more for them as evidenced by ATP. FoMoCo can sell under 10 names or 1, it won't change the fact that they fall 3 million short of their biggest competitor.

That is true, GM as a whole outsells Ford Mo Co as a whole. break it down into different brands and its a different story.

Ford Brand Outsells Chevrolet in the US and has since 2010

That tells me more people are willing to buy Ford's then Chevys

does it change the fact GM owns more market share, nope not at all. That shows me GM is reaching more customers, with different brands. Thats good for them.

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Price. Fleet sales have significantly lower transaction prices than retail. The absolute difference in what Ford sells to rental companies offsets the very small advantage Ford had in F-Series sales last year. But hey, at least they can say "best selling truck in America*"

*1.6% margin thanks to Thrifty

Funny they never mention how badly they are beat in every other segment by double digit differences.

Might want to double check that boss.

2014 US sales according to good car bad car

Escape outsold Equinox 306,212 to 246,242 thats 59,970
Fusion outsold Malibu 306,860 to 188,519 thats 118,341
Explorer outsold Traverse 209,994, to 103,943 thats 106,051

Not every segment, but there are certainly segments where Ford handles itself just fine against Chevrolet

For those wondering, Cruze outsold focus, Impala destroyed taurus and Tahoe outsold Expedition

and since F series is topic at hand

F-series outsold Silverado 753,851 to 529,755 thats 224,096 that doesn't seem like a small margin to me? If I did my math right thats about 29%

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Price. Fleet sales have significantly lower transaction prices than retail. The absolute difference in what Ford sells to rental companies offsets the very small advantage Ford had in F-Series sales last year. But hey, at least they can say "best selling truck in America*"

*1.6% margin thanks to Thrifty

Why does it matter? The F-series are still the best selling truck in America. You can whine about fleet sales, that doesn't change the fact. You seem very upset and personally insulted.

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Funny they never mention how badly they are beat in every other segment by double digit differences.

Yeah, why wouldn't they bring up something completely irrelevant in their advertisements for trucks?

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by shaffe

2014 US sales according to good car bad car

Escape outsold Equinox 306,212 to 246,242 thats 59,970
Fusion outsold Malibu 306,860 to 188,519 thats 118,341
Explorer outsold Traverse 209,994, to 103,943 thats 106,051

Not every segment, but there are certainly segments where Ford handles itself just fine against Chevrolet

For those wondering, Cruze outsold focus, Impala destroyed taurus and Tahoe outsold Expedition

FoMoCo does well with the Fusion and Explorer but gets dominated in every other category. Pickups are a whopping 0.13% difference between the two. Not only does GM sell more cars, they sell them at a higher price point.

Small Car
GM 499,111 vs FoMoCo 282,826: GM by 55%

Small/Midsize Luxury Cars
GM 84,340 vs FoMoCo 42,169: GM by 67%

Midsize Car
GM 229,884 vs FoMoCo 306,860: FoMoCo by 29%

Large Car
GM 194,227 vs FoMoCo 62,629: GM by 102%

Sporty Car
GM 122,446 vs FoMoCo 82,635: GM by 39%

Small SUV
GM 432,257 vs FoMoCo 306,212: GM by 34%

Small/Midsize Luxury SUV
GM 53,578 vs FoMoCo 41,872: GM by 25%

Midsize SUV
GM 250,215 vs FoMoCo 342,676: FoMoCo by 31%

Large SUV
GM 224,056 vs FoMoCo 44,632: GM by 134%

Large Luxury SUV
GM 30,522 vs FoMoCo 10,433: GM by 98%

Pickup
GM 752,806 vs FoMoCo 753,851: FoMoCo by 0.13%

_________________________________________________

U.S. Sales 2014
GM 2,935,008 vs FoMoCo 2,471,315: GM by 17%

Worldwide Sales 2014
GM 9.92 million vs FoMoCo 6.32: GM by 44%

Like I said, double-digits.

Originally Posted by trademaster

Why does it matter? The F-series are still the best selling truck in America. You can whine about fleet sales, that doesn't change the fact.

LOL and GM still has the best selling small cars, large cars, sporty cars, small SUV's, large SUV's, and large luxury SUV's in America, so what's your point? GM sold more pickups in Jan 2015 than FoMoCo too. We'll see how the rest of the year unfolds.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

FoMoCo does well with the Fusion and Explorer but gets dominated in every other category. Pickups are a whopping 0.13% difference between the two. Not only does GM sell more cars, they sell them at a higher price point.

Small Car
GM 499,111 vs FoMoCo 282,826: GM by 55%

Small/Midsize Luxury Cars
GM 84,340 vs FoMoCo 42,169: GM by 67%

Midsize Car
GM 229,884 vs FoMoCo 306,860: FoMoCo by 29%

Large Car
GM 194,227 vs FoMoCo 62,629: GM by 102%

Sporty Car
GM 122,446 vs FoMoCo 82,635: GM by 39%

Small SUV
GM 432,257 vs FoMoCo 306,212: GM by 34%

Small/Midsize Luxury SUV
GM 53,578 vs FoMoCo 41,872: GM by 25%

Midsize SUV
GM 250,215 vs FoMoCo 342,676: FoMoCo by 31%

Large SUV
GM 224,056 vs FoMoCo 44,632: GM by 134%

Large Luxury SUV
GM 30,522 vs FoMoCo 10,433: GM by 98%

Pickup
GM 752,806 vs FoMoCo 753,851: FoMoCo by 0.13%

_________________________________________________

U.S. Sales 2014
GM 2,935,008 vs FoMoCo 2,471,315: GM by 17%

Worldwide Sales 2014
GM 9.92 million vs FoMoCo 6.32: GM by 44%

Like I said, double-digits.



LOL and GM still has the best selling small cars, large cars, sporty cars, small SUV's, large SUV's, and large luxury SUV's in America, so what's your point? GM sold more pickups in Jan 2015 than FoMoCo too. We'll see how the rest of the year unfolds.

I do hope all potential buyers of the next gen SVT Raptor (the topic at hand) take all the above figures into account and not just the new gen2 3.5l 450hp EB, the 500lb weight loss, or all new 10-speed auto, before they make their purchase.

[khell86]

Looks like we've found Lowdown's other account.

[Scrappy Doo]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I do hope all potential buyers of the next gen SVT Raptor (the topic at hand) take all the above figures into account and not just the new gen2 3.5l 450hp EB, the 500lb weight loss, or all new 10-speed auto, before they make their purchase.

THIS.

Will the rest of you guys take your sales comparisons nonsense to another thread?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

FoMoCo does well with the Fusion and Explorer but gets dominated in every other category. Pickups are a whopping 0.13% difference between the two. Not only does GM sell more cars, they sell them at a higher price point.

Small Car
GM 499,111 vs FoMoCo 282,826: GM by 55%

Small/Midsize Luxury Cars
GM 84,340 vs FoMoCo 42,169: GM by 67%

Midsize Car
GM 229,884 vs FoMoCo 306,860: FoMoCo by 29%

Large Car
GM 194,227 vs FoMoCo 62,629: GM by 102%

Sporty Car
GM 122,446 vs FoMoCo 82,635: GM by 39%

Small SUV
GM 432,257 vs FoMoCo 306,212: GM by 34%

Small/Midsize Luxury SUV
GM 53,578 vs FoMoCo 41,872: GM by 25%

Midsize SUV
GM 250,215 vs FoMoCo 342,676: FoMoCo by 31%

Large SUV
GM 224,056 vs FoMoCo 44,632: GM by 134%

Large Luxury SUV
GM 30,522 vs FoMoCo 10,433: GM by 98%

Pickup
GM 752,806 vs FoMoCo 753,851: FoMoCo by 0.13%

_________________________________________________

U.S. Sales 2014
GM 2,935,008 vs FoMoCo 2,471,315: GM by 17%

Worldwide Sales 2014
GM 9.92 million vs FoMoCo 6.32: GM by 44%

Like I said, double-digits.



LOL and GM still has the best selling small cars, large cars, sporty cars, small SUV's, large SUV's, and large luxury SUV's in America, so what's your point? GM sold more pickups in Jan 2015 than FoMoCo too. We'll see how the rest of the year unfolds.

Those numbers are fine and dandy but that is not what is being discussed. ( and I had already agreed with you that GM outsless FoMoCo) What was being discussed was F-Series which is sold under The FORD Brand, which is why even if combined GM outsells F-series, F-series is still number 1 selling truck because it is a single model under a single brand. Call it a technicality if you want, but its true ( and I will agree with you that its a technicality but it is what it is).

Which is why I posted the numbers for the Ford brand and the respective models in segments compared to Ford brands direct competitor of GM which is the Chevrolet brand.

And F-Series outsold Silverado and Sierra combined in January US sales

F-Series 54,370

Silverado 36,106 + Sierra 12,621 = 48,727

FACT

[Dizzy82]

So...because I'm the curious type, how did we get to where we are now from a discussion on the upcoming Raptor?

The same way every other thread goes.....no one can stay on topic.