I don't understand Chevrolet anymore

[HufferSS]

Originally Posted by BigHemiSrt

And how does a fbody handle?? Last time i checked you dont see too many f bodies at a road course. But go to a drag strip and tell me what u find...

A lot of slow Mopar owners that apparently wish they bought a Mustang?

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by cbass

I actually almost ended up in a mustang, but there were two key issues that killed it for me. Remember they killed it for ME based and what I find important. 1. The Chinese made transmission. It may not be important to you, but it is to me. I had horrible experiences with Chinese metal and it doesn't seem to be going well for Ford either. 2. Ford's response to some of these warranty claims regarding the transmission. I believe they have responded poorly. I have had other brands where warranty claims became a big hassle and personally I no longer want to deal with a company like that anymore. At least not buying a new car. I will buy used in that case.

Other than that I can't find much fault with the 5.0 mustang.

For the record, the metals used in the transmission are not Chinese. The plant in China only assembles the transmissions for Ford.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

A lot of slow Mopar owners that apparently wish they bought a Mustang?

Ouch.

Edit: Chinese metals - 30 minutes after you've forged them, you want to forge them again! Thank you, remember to tip your waiter.

[cbass]

For the record, the metals used in the transmission are not Chinese. The plant in China only assembles the transmissions for Ford.

I actually test drove a 2012 Ford Mustang MT82 today with a little over 5000 miles on it. It took me awhile to find one and I finally did.

This is my comparison of it compared to a 2010 camaro 2ss with over 20,000 miles that I also test drove a week or two back.

I liked the clutch on the mustang better than on the camaro. The camaro clutch engagement is too tall. Mustang engagement is much nicer.

For the people who say it shifts like butter. Not really sure where they are coming from. Maybe I would notice if I drove the two cars back to back? The transmission was just as notchy if not more notchy than the camaros.

Now it's been a long time since I drove a manual car (years), but during the test drive I had second gear pop out on me or maybe I did something stupid and ground the gear? The radio was off so it's not grinding like I remember. From what I remember when you grind a gear you really know you ground a gear because you can hear it. I didn't hear any such grinding noise. It just popped out. Any idea what user error I could have done to make that happen without noises? I also heard some metallic noises, but maybe I'm just being paranoid. I don't remember the camaro transmission sounding that way.

So there may be a problem with the transmissions Chinese metal or assembly. I would need more time with the car or other cars.

Actually it was something like this. The first time in the video where there is no noise, but then then shifter shakes and pops out. Never grinded like later in the video:

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

A lot of slow Mopar owners that apparently wish they bought a Mustang?

What an educated post!! Kudos to you sir. :-/

Also just goes to show you how much you must go to the track to say something so stupid.

Slow?? Must be referring to your car. With all your mods are you in the 9's yet where u should be???

Since we're talking about f bodies maybe you should sell your car and buy you one. I mean after all they have h/c f bodies that run quicker than you.

I'll put my cam only car against any full weight cam only 5th gen.

[Number 3]

For those forgetting the 90's Mustang vs. Camaro rivalry, the Mustang volumes were high simply due to V6 sales. As I recall, Camaro V8 volumes were higher than Mustang V8 volumes for a chunk of that time period. The Camaro was simply lower, harder to get in and out and a horrible back seat with a hatch instead of a trunk. If you simply wanted a nice V6 coupe, the Mustang was a better choice.

And to say that for 1 month the Mustang has caught the Camaro so therefor the Camaro is cooling off is just a weeeee bit premature.

Right now on 2012 Mustang you can get $2,500 plus financing, the Camaro has $1,000 on the hood with financing. If you don't think incentives can impact volumes you don't know the industry. GM hasn't had to put much on the hood to move Camaros and it's nearing the end of the 3rd model year without a refresh. Mustang has had a new V6 and V8, a new interior and in 2013 will be on it's second exterior refresh yet they have a pretty hefty rebate.

[Lou_Dorchen]

Originally Posted by Number 3

For those forgetting the 90's Mustang vs. Camaro rivalry, the Mustang volumes were high simply due to V6 sales. As I recall, Camaro V8 volumes were higher than Mustang V8 volumes for a chunk of that time period. The Camaro was simply lower, harder to get in and out and a horrible back seat with a hatch instead of a trunk. If you simply wanted a nice V6 coupe, the Mustang was a better choice.

That's not true. The Mustang vastly outsold the Camaro back then. And the base Mustangs didn't have V6s, they had 4-cylinders. While from 1986 on the base model Camaro had a V6, it wasn't until 1994 that the base model Mustang got a V6. So for the 3rd Gen years the Camaro was the better car in terms of the base models.


Year: Mustang/Camaro
86: 224,410/ 192,219
87: 159,145/ 137,760
88: 211,225/ 96,275
89: 209,769/ 110,850
90: 128,189/ 35,048
91: 98,737/ 101,316
92: 79,280/ 70,712
93: 114,228/ *39,755 (*) designates a redesign
94:*123,198/ 119,934 (*) designates a redesign
95: 185,986/ 122,844
96: 126,483/ 66,827
97: 100,254/ 95,812
98: 170,642/ 77,198
99: 126,067/ 42,098
00: 218,525/ 45,417
01: 155,162/ 29,009

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/auto...e-needed-7419/

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Lou_Dorchen

That's not true. The Mustang vastly outsold the Camaro back then. And the base Mustangs didn't have V6s, they had 4-cylinders. While from 1986 on the base model Camaro had a V6, it wasn't until 1994 that the base model Mustang got a V6. So for the 3rd Gen years the Camaro was the better car in terms of the base models.


Year: Mustang/Camaro
86: 224,410/ 192,219
87: 159,145/ 137,760
88: 211,225/ 96,275
89: 209,769/ 110,850
90: 128,189/ 35,048
91: 98,737/ 101,316
92: 79,280/ 70,712
93: 114,228/ *39,755 (*) designates a redesign
94:*123,198/ 119,934 (*) designates a redesign
95: 185,986/ 122,844
96: 126,483/ 66,827
97: 100,254/ 95,812
98: 170,642/ 77,198
99: 126,067/ 42,098
00: 218,525/ 45,417
01: 155,162/ 29,009

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/auto...e-needed-7419/

You missed my point. Show the V8 only volumes please.

And every year you have on your list, the Camaro was the hatchback. For a lot of people, the simple ergonomics of that car were not very good. Your opinion is that the Camaro was the better coupe and I won't argue that, but sales volumes said otherwise. It was the known problem within GM that the performance versions of the Fbody sold decent right up to the last few years. But the base car pretty much left you wanting and sales told that story. And as they say, the rest is history. It might even be the reason GM is against bringing hatchbacks to our market.

[Lou_Dorchen]

I couldn't find the sales numbers by engine, but in some of those years the Mustang won by 2X all the way to 4X. Unless Ford sold almost no V8 models those years, you cant blame it on base model sales. I've always wondered why the Camaro was beaten so badly by the Mustang in the 4th Gen years as the Camaro very much outperformed the Mustang in the V8 models those years. It had the beautiful Chevy 350, while the Mustang had the 4.6 2V which was not one of Ford's better V8s. Not to be a jerk, but since you claim it was due to V6 sales you should be able to provide the sales figures.

I'm not even sure why people hated the 3rd Gen+ hatchback design. My buddy bought a new 1991 back then. Not only was it more convenient compared to the small trunk you found in coupes, we also found that the hatchback design was perfect for putting a pair of subwoofers back there.

[pistolgripcopo1]

Compition is good. Dodge really?

[AZCamaroFan]

i'm not sure people did hate it. i had an 89 that was very convenient.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by BigHemiSrt

And how does a fbody handle?? Last time i checked you dont see too many f bodies at a road course. But go to a drag strip and tell me what u find...

Are you serious? For example the 4 gen had the 1 LE suspension package, which for the time was a very respectable track pack. The mustang was an absolute joke for a road course largely until today. And yes you see more on the drag strip than a race track for a couple of reasons. A. Any N.A. 4.6 v8 from Ford got its butt kicked from the Chevy small block. B. Takeing your car to a road course is more popular today than it was then.

[AZCamaroFan]

actually the Camaro was also more expensive than the mustang in the 80s and 90s.

[HufferSS]

Originally Posted by BigHemiSrt

What an educated post!! Kudos to you sir. :-/

Also just goes to show you how much you must go to the track to say something so stupid.

Slow?? Must be referring to your car. With all your mods are you in the 9's yet where u should be???

Since we're talking about f bodies maybe you should sell your car and buy you one. I mean after all they have h/c f bodies that run quicker than you.

I'll put my cam only car against any full weight cam only 5th gen.

Lol...lighten up Beavis...I was kidding with you.

9s.....nah...skipping those and going right into the 8s instead. You bringing your rocket to any events this year so we can see for ourselves how fast it is? Pony Wars is in May....??