Alabama governor signs nation's toughest immigration law.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

I'd like to see the numbers and where they got them from, because, from what I know, there has always been other more efficient ways to cross the border.
Either way, I think the public is focusing too much on the actual act of illegal immigration, instead of the real problem, which is the lack of support for legal immigration.

OK...

fair.

so lets frame the problem...

From a national security perspective, we need to have a better idea of who's here.

not only criminals but terrorists... Now hang on I'm not an "all immigrants are criminals or terrorists guy." remember Last Name is Valdez... From AZ, lived in CA with family still in TJ, MX...

So, we have to do a better job of knowing who is here and being able to connect some sort of criminal record to those who are here.

So that leaves out the If you are here now you are grandfathered in... because we still have no way to sort out the criminals...

So, that leaves actually enforcing laws that are already in place...

Love it or hate it, that is actually doing nothing but enforcing the law. Nothing new there.

Now, Once we know who's here, they can pay taxes, buy property, work and send money home.... and abide by the laws of the country that provides work for them...

So, yes, there are plenty of ways to get across.. so here's the shocker...

about 15 years ago. a family member of mine would "bring" people across the boarder to work. house them and put them to work, under the condition they became legal citizens.. So I'm very well aware of how easy it is.

But, it is in the interest of the citizens who are here paying taxes and contributing to the welfare system that the illegals use to account for all immigrants and punish law breakers... again. this is not a new concept.

How do we fix that problem.....

IMO, it isn't easy. But we have to know who's' here and have some way to police them, just like every other us citizen... why should immigrants be entitled to more freedom and benefits with less accountability than the citizens who are taxed for the services they use....

If you want to work here, do it legally, If not... you take your chances.

I don't see the subjectivity???

[AZCamaroFan]

i think everyone knows the buget problems California has. Did you see the report the other day that said they spend 4 Billion per year on illegals?

[Milk 1027]

I agree with you. I just don't agree with this law. If this law was enacted under a diferent scenario where it isn't nearly impossible to become a U.S. citizen I would agree 100%. There are many terrorist organizations being harbored in Mexico, and I'm not just talking about drug cartels. (Al Qaeda cells etc...)
You're right there is no easy solution to the problem, but I think people try to find the easiest way to solve a problem, and it's never going to work. Its not just this situation, our entire judicial and correctional systems are just not functioning right.
Focusing on petty things will get us nowhere.

But oh well. I guess there really isn't anything we can do as citizens. I'd rather not get too political in this thread.

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

i think everyone knows the buget problems California has. Did you see the report the other day that said they spend 4 Billion per year on illegals?

and do you know how much they spend on the correctional systems versus state colleges?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

I tend to agree Milk... it should be easier... After watching what "G" went through and what some of my family go through it is frustrating...

Yup. And him too. He should maybe be pissed as well.

Most Latin Americans were not in favor of those demonstrations. FWIW

I guess it's the lack of outcry from the right people that make it seem that way. We're so agraid to say something for fear of being labeled a hater or racist.

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

I agree with you 100%. But like I said the problem needs to be fixed at the source. Making laws that are based on racial profiling is not the way to go.

Can't argue with that, but deal with the more immediate problem with a strong sense of urgency WHILE dealing with the other too.

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

set up recruiting stations on the border

Hmmmmm........... I suppose, but how much loyalty could we expect?

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

I just see a law suit in the near future, if the Supreme Court doesn't step in before-hand.

I'm for states rights. If Bama wants to open it's self up to that, that's our business I guess.

Originally Posted by aldaron327

You do not have to be one. We had a supply specialist in my Company who was from the Dominican Republic. He deployed with us and when we all got back Stateside, the whole Company (Officers, WOs, and Enlisted folks) drove to Topeka for his citizenship ceremony. It was awesome!

I also had a roommate in college that was a Canadian citizen but had served 3 years as an infantryman in the US Army.

Cool.

Originally Posted by irocnroll

There is the flip side of this coin as well. They also provide work as well as purchase goods in our economy. Having no illegal immigration could do harm to the economy as a whole. Which would drive labor prices up also causing the cost of goods to go up. And also force more jobs outside of the US.

I disagree.

Originally Posted by irocnroll

Those unemployed people wont accept the wages that immigrants will take. Alot of these unemployed people have too much pride to go out and work in such places as foods services for one. These jobs can be filled now, but people wont take them.

Not as long as the Feds keep handing money out. Stop the handouts and people will take them.

Originally Posted by garcmol

This isn't profiling, it's identifying.

Nice. lol

Originally Posted by brandotron

I look like the whitest honky ever

..............

Illegals can get drivers licenses? When did THIS happen?

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

I just found it odd that a state so far from the border would have such major illegal immigrant issues. But, when you mentioned the chicken plants, it kind of makes sense. Poultry is one of Mexico's bigger agricultural industries, so I imagine plenty of illegal immigrants from Mexico would naturally try to get a job in a field they are familiar with...

Alabama is also VERY right wing. VERY Republican and tries to be VERY pro-active. WE want this. WE as in the citizens of Alabama.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Well, for me, when people are here undocumented that creates a plethora of problems. People need to be indentified. If you are here be able to prove who you are if you are asked. If you should not be here, then it's time to leave. We just can't have millions of people roaming the country undocumented.

[PQ]

This reminds me of the Fest when DGthe3 was asked if he had to get a passport to come and he whipped it out right there. Someone said, damn, you got that thing out pretty fast, DG said "Are you kidding, I'm in Arizona. I ain't playing no games."

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by PQ

This reminds me of the Fest when DGthe3 was asked if he had to get a passport to come and he whipped it out right there. Someone said, damn, you got that thing out pretty fast, DG said "Are you kidding, I'm in Arizona. I ain't playing no games."

OMG that is

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by PQ

This reminds me of the Fest when DGthe3 was asked if he had to get a passport to come and he whipped it out right there. Someone said, damn, you got that thing out pretty fast, DG said "Are you kidding, I'm in Arizona. I ain't playing no games."

LOL. Or when the Border Patrol was passing by and I yelled, "Quick hide the Canadians!"

[irocnroll]

Originally Posted by PQ

I disagree.

Immigration ends up creating more jobs. Follow this. Most of those unemployed will not work in low paying unskilled jobs. Immigrants end up filling these spots. As a result of filling these spots, they will require suppervision or project leaders. This in turns opens up possitions for those skilled labor workers that are currently unemployed. Now if you make it more difficult for immigration, these lower skilled jobs will not be filled. Business will not be able to effectively compete in the United States as they will have to pay those skilled laborers more money to do a job. This causes the cost of goods or services the business produces to go up. They now either have to run on smaller profit margins or choose an alternative and outsource their labor to another country.

Now the jobs that the immigrants would have filled have been moved overseas.

I just spent an entire semester of grad school on this topic. I am in no way an expert on this subject but I did have to do research on the topic. Their are the drawbacks of Healthcare, unpaid taxes and education...but others are overlooking the benefits of immigrants producing and purchasing goods in our economy.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by irocnroll

Immigration ends up creating more jobs. Follow this. Most of those unemployed will not work in low paying unskilled jobs. Immigrants end up filling these spots. As a result of filling these spots, they will require suppervision or project leaders. This in turns opens up possitions for those skilled labor workers that are currently unemployed. Now if you make it more difficult for immigration, these lower skilled jobs will not be filled. Business will not be able to effectively compete in the United States as they will have to pay those skilled laborers more money to do a job. This causes the cost of goods or services the business produces to go up. They now either have to run on smaller profit margins or choose an alternative and outsource their labor to another country.

Now the jobs that the immigrants would have filled have been moved overseas.

I just spent an entire semester of grad school on this topic. I am in no way an expert on this subject but I did have to do research on the topic. Their are the drawbacks of Healthcare, unpaid taxes and education...but others are overlooking the benefits of immigrants producing and purchasing goods in our economy.

You are talking about immigrants, while other people are talking about illegal immigrants...

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by PQ

Hmmmmm........... I suppose, but how much loyalty could we expect?

Well, if that person wants to stay alive, live in the US, earn a living in the US, have them sign all the documents stating they will do their job, protect the American people, their own soldiers, etc, they'd better do that, or else be dishonorably discharged and sent packing back home. No one would be forcing them to join the military, it's just another option for them. For example, maybe a young man loves the United States, and sees this opportunity to help defend it, and create a better life for thrmself and their family. Who knows, many he'll stay in for a full 20years. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that, and that's one less person in the US illegally.

[irocnroll]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

You are talking about immigrants, while other people are talking about illegal immigrants...

My arguement is towards both. Illegal or Legal, they are still filling these jobs.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

LOL. Or when the Border Patrol was passing by and I yelled, "Quick hide the Canadians!"

Yup........ LMAO

Originally Posted by irocnroll

Immigration ends up creating more jobs. Follow this. Most of those unemployed will not work in low paying unskilled jobs. Stop the Gov. handout and they will.

Immigrants end up filling these spots. As a result of filling these spots, they will require suppervision or project leaders. This in turns opens up possitions for those skilled labor workers that are currently unemployed. Now if you make it more difficult for immigration, these lower skilled jobs will not be filled. Business will not be able to effectively compete in the United States as they will have to pay those skilled laborers more money to do a job. This causes the cost of goods or services the business produces to go up. They now either have to run on smaller profit margins or choose an alternative and outsource their labor to another country.

Now the jobs that the immigrants would have filled have been moved overseas.

I just spent an entire semester of grad school on this topic. Their are the drawbacks of Healthcare, unpaid taxes and education...but others are overlooking the benefits of immigrants producing and purchasing goods in our economy.

About 1% of college professors will share my views and opinions. I hope those were students thoughts and not coached by the teacher.

And I stand by my thoughts. Stop the freaking handouts and people will work. In your plan you paint 10% of our people into a corner. The ones who arent' working now will become EVEN MORE dependent on the Gov.

And you can't just gloss over the healthcare, taxes and education issues like that.