The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[SGOS252382]

The chance of crashing your car is much higher in road racing.

I don't mind running my car wide open in a straight line, but I don't want to risk taking it around a road course (racing wide open).

In addition, most areas of the country have local 1/4 mile or at least an 1/8 tracks. They allow racing several days/nights per week for a small fee. For $20.00 you can run your car as many times as you want down the track. That's just hard to resist.

I know road racing would be a blast. I just don't want to risk doing it in my car.

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by Doc

Not sure what you think I said, but nothing in my post said anything about what people enjoy. In fact based on this thread only dms and I seem to be into road racing while everybody else is talking about 1/4 mile. Of course everybody enjoys what they're doing or they wouldn't be doing it.

My point which may have gotten lost in the verbage was that 1/4 mile racing typically compares car against car which is a function of horsepower and traction in a 1/4 mile race. Saying that one make or model of car is "better" than the other because it won in a 1/4 race just seems silly to me. It's purely a matter of who has the most money to buy hp and traction and once you're at that point it makes no difference what make or model the car is. It was the hp and traction that won.

Do people enjoy doing it? Sure, that's why they spend the money on it but there's really no reason to argue or have hard feelings towards one another over it. It's just money and mods.

Road course and autocross is MUCH more demanding on the driver and the "thrill" lasts longer, and to me that's a lot more satisfying than spending tens of thousands for a few seconds of thrill. I'm sure dms would probably agree with me but that's just 2 of us against the tide in here lol.

I was going off of what you said, that you "love" the track and road racing. I can totally respect anyone's idea of "true" racing. I have never done it but I can't really think that I would get more enjoyment out of it than 1/4 mile racing. And you're right, I wouldn't want to have an exercise routine be a part of what I like to do with my car. That's what's so great about these forums, you're able to express your ideas and what you consider to be challenging and I'm able to express mine.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

The chance of crashing your car is much higher in road racing.

I don't mind running my car wide open in a straight line, but I don't want to risk taking it around a road course (racing wide open).

In addition, most areas of the country have local 1/4 mile or at least an 1/8 tracks. They allow racing several days/nights per week for a small fee. For $20.00 you can run your car as many times as you want down the track. That's just hard to resist.

I know road racing would be a blast. I just don't want to risk doing it in my car.

If I could get every Camaro owner to do one thing it would be to run their Camaro at a Road Course on a test and tune night. For $50 or so you'll have from four or five in the afternoon until dusk. Because of the mind set that road courses are hard on cars, dangerous, etc... test and tune nights mean wide open almost empty track. You can get your bone stock Camaro out on course and explore the car's limits and your limits. Keep it within your comfort zone and you'll be in no more danger than driving down the highway.

Too many years ago for me to want to remember my first driving instructor asked me how fast is fast. I babbled something and he said: fast is 5 MPH too fast for a corner, that could be 15 or 20 MPH, is too fast. I thought to myself this guy doesn't have a clue. Then we started out with cones in a parking lot before heading out to a track. He was dead nuts on.

I drag race and enjoy it. It is usually over in about 12 seconds. A single lap at Gingerman is equal to 11 drag passes. I'll put in 20 hard laps or so in an evening breaking them down to 5 or 6 lap sessions running as hard as I can. I leave the track mentally and physically exhausted because of the intense concentration required. The race track is about the ONLY place I can put work aside -- even when I am test driving. When I am on the track, everything else has to go and I focus only on running the perfect lap.

One of these years I'll get a perfect lap in -- I hope. The perfect lap is probably a myth as any race driver can always analyse the run data and find a way to be faster. The pursuit of the perfect lap... what can I say? An almost perfect lap puts a smile on your face for a long long time.

I almost forgot why getting Camaro owners on a road course is so IMPORTANT. What you learn running in your comfort zone will astound you. You will leave the track a better safer driver knowing more about yourself and the car. Mustang owners are in the same situation. For the most part, we all own more car than we are capable of driving. That is true of me as well. When I run with one of my professional drivers I learn that I am an average driver at best. There is a HUGE gap between a driver like Paul Tracy and most driving instructors. HUGE. I am sometimes asked to ride along and coach people because they think I am good. It is all relative. I am good compared to some. Compared to Paul Tracy I am a joke.

I love running with better drivers no matter how bad they make me look. I learn more and learn faster. I also love learning alone and pushing the envelope incrementally. Testing myself. Getting just this much better makes my day and may save my life in an emergency situation on a public road some day.

[Speed74SS]

I used to love going to the drag strip and it is a blast for sure. I have been to the road track 3 weekends this summer and now I can honestly say that I don't really care if I make it back to the drag strip. I usually run from 8am to 4pm at the track with 20 min sessions (about 10 laps). It is the most exciting thing I have ever done!! Imagine running your car at the edge for 15-20min straight

[Sax1031]

When I had my bike I preferred track days. For my car easily it was drag strip.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Speed74SS

I used to love going to the drag strip and it is a blast for sure. I have been to the road track 3 weekends this summer and now I can honestly say that I don't really care if I make it back to the drag strip. I usually run from 8am to 4pm at the track with 20 min sessions (about 10 laps). It is the most exciting thing I have ever done!! Imagine running your car at the edge for 15-20min straight

YOu are so right! IT is an amazing adrenaline rush. The first time I did it with a pro driver at my side, my hands were shaking after I was done with excitement. Did a controlled 4 wheel drift at 120mph in a Firebird at Infineon at the end of the ddrag strip. Not sure what they call that corner now. But it was very exciting in deed


\I use to help set up some drag rides in my younger days when there was a grudge night at Fremont Raceway. Did some carb tuning on a tunnelram on a corvette with a big block. He wanted me to be in the car to feel the pull. So when he hit 3rd gear, the driveshaft broke. He did some clutch work the day before and did not put on his safety straps for the shaft. I remember trying to get very small as the driveshaft came up thru the floorboard! a Drag race event I will never forget!

mike
dms

[Doc]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

But by that logic wouldn't the guy with the most money to buy better tires and suspension mods, etc be the one that usually wins on a road course?

FYI, part of the thrill of 1/4 mile racing (at least for me) is seeing the other car right next to yours before and during the race. On a road course you take turns and see who has the better time, correct? To me, that takes away the 'head to head' thrill.

If the drivers were all equal that would be the case, but they're not. Driver skill is by far the biggest factor and that comes into play over and over again on each and every corner, each and every lap. You can't change your car when you're on the track but you can sure change your performance by what you're learning every single time you go around. As a "personal" experience it can be very rewarding.

There's time trial road racing and there's wheel-to-wheel. If you go to a club event or even many HPDE days you can be on the track with other cars in front, behind and next to you. Safety is first and foremost though so nobody drives recklessly or bangs into each other like Nascar or anything. All the cars out there are people's personal cars so there's a lot more caution and respect for that from the drivers but that doesn't mean they don't drive competitively. What's nice is you don't have to wait an hour for another 12 seconds down the 1/4 mile; you do it lap after lap.

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

The chance of crashing your car is much higher in road racing.

I don't mind running my car wide open in a straight line, but I don't want to risk taking it around a road course (racing wide open).

In addition, most areas of the country have local 1/4 mile or at least an 1/8 tracks. They allow racing several days/nights per week for a small fee. For $20.00 you can run your car as many times as you want down the track. That's just hard to resist.

I know road racing would be a blast. I just don't want to risk doing it in my car.

The chance of crashing is why you stop thinking with your engine hp and start thinking of the vehicle as a whole unit including you the driver. Drive within your ability and gradually learn how to go faster instead of just stomping the pedal to the floor for a few seconds.

By all means keep going to your "run what you brung" nights if you enjoy it but you might find once you've had a taste of road course racing, your thoughts will be on that road course; running lap after lap in your mind long after you've gone home. Because you know for a fact it's about you; not your car. The challenge is to you, not your checkbook or engine hp or your car. You don't have to really risk your car either. Find out when a local HPDE (High Performance Driving Experience) event is happening at a track you can get to and sign up. You go around with trained instructors in your car who help you to learn how to road race and you do it at reasonable speeds so you aren't really risking your car. Then you get to do some laps on your own to practice what they've been teaching you. You go at your own pace at a speed you feel comfortable with while you're learning so it's actually far safer than being on the freeway believe it or not. You'll take more risks getting to the track on public roads than you will on the track.

Do yourself a favor... try it just once and see if you like it. I'm betting you will.

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

I was going off of what you said, that you "love" the track and road racing. I can totally respect anyone's idea of "true" racing. I have never done it but I can't really think that I would get more enjoyment out of it than 1/4 mile racing. And you're right, I wouldn't want to have an exercise routine be a part of what I like to do with my car. That's what's so great about these forums, you're able to express your ideas and what you consider to be challenging and I'm able to express mine.

Well imagine being able to do 1/4 mile runs down the straights lap after lap without having to wait an hour in a staging lane. Try it just once at either a club event or an HPDE day. I'd be interested to hear what your impressions are.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

If I could get every Camaro owner to do one thing it would be to run their Camaro at a Road Course on a test and tune night. For $50 or so you'll have from four or five in the afternoon until dusk. Because of the mind set that road courses are hard on cars, dangerous, etc... test and tune nights mean wide open almost empty track. You can get your bone stock Camaro out on course and explore the car's limits and your limits. Keep it within your comfort zone and you'll be in no more danger than driving down the highway.

Too many years ago for me to want to remember my first driving instructor asked me how fast is fast. I babbled something and he said: fast is 5 MPH too fast for a corner, that could be 15 or 20 MPH, is too fast. I thought to myself this guy doesn't have a clue. Then we started out with cones in a parking lot before heading out to a track. He was dead nuts on.

I drag race and enjoy it. It is usually over in about 12 seconds. A single lap at Gingerman is equal to 11 drag passes. I'll put in 20 hard laps or so in an evening breaking them down to 5 or 6 lap sessions running as hard as I can. I leave the track mentally and physically exhausted because of the intense concentration required. The race track is about the ONLY place I can put work aside -- even when I am test driving. When I am on the track, everything else has to go and I focus only on running the perfect lap.

One of these years I'll get a perfect lap in -- I hope. The perfect lap is probably a myth as any race driver can always analyse the run data and find a way to be faster. The pursuit of the perfect lap... what can I say? An almost perfect lap puts a smile on your face for a long long time.

I almost forgot why getting Camaro owners on a road course is so IMPORTANT. What you learn running in your comfort zone will astound you. You will leave the track a better safer driver knowing more about yourself and the car. Mustang owners are in the same situation. For the most part, we all own more car than we are capable of driving. That is true of me as well. When I run with one of my professional drivers I learn that I am an average driver at best. There is a HUGE gap between a driver like Paul Tracy and most driving instructors. HUGE. I am sometimes asked to ride along and coach people because they think I am good. It is all relative. I am good compared to some. Compared to Paul Tracy I am a joke.

I love running with better drivers no matter how bad they make me look. I learn more and learn faster. I also love learning alone and pushing the envelope incrementally. Testing myself. Getting just this much better makes my day and may save my life in an emergency situation on a public road some day.

Hear hear! Couldn't have put it any better; well said Pete!!!

Originally Posted by Speed74SS

I used to love going to the drag strip and it is a blast for sure. I have been to the road track 3 weekends this summer and now I can honestly say that I don't really care if I make it back to the drag strip. I usually run from 8am to 4pm at the track with 20 min sessions (about 10 laps). It is the most exciting thing I have ever done!! Imagine running your car at the edge for 15-20min straight

Exactly, instead of an adrenaline rush for 12 seconds try one for over 1000 seconds non-stop lol. As Steve McQueen said in the movie LeMans: "Racing is life. Everything before and after, is just waiting."

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Doc

If the drivers were all equal that would be the case, but they're not. Driver skill is by far the biggest factor and that comes into play over and over again on each and every corner, each and every lap.

But again, driver skill matters in drag racing. Actually in a drag race you get ONE launch, screw it up and you lose.

I just don't like how you seem to be saying driver skill is not a huge factor in drag racing. It's like saying athleticism doesn't really matter in a 40-yard dash, but it really matters in the Boston Marathon.

[Speed74SS]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

But again, driver skill matters in drag racing. Actually in a drag race you get ONE launch, screw it up and you lose.

I just don't like how you seem to be saying driver skill is not a huge factor in drag racing. It's like saying athleticism doesn't really matter in a 40-yard dash, but it really matters in the Boston Marathon.

I agree that drivers skill does matter in drag racing - as you can spin your tires through 1st, 2nd and 3rd and end up with a crappy time.....don't ask me how I know.

Driver skill on a road course is a lot different though. Its a lot more intense because of the braking, the corners, the speed etc but that's what makes it fun. Plus we have about 10 cars on the track at the same time, so I can race my friends and we can really talk crap about each other. Most places make you take a driving school or a class with instructors before you go all out on the track. It actually is pretty safe. They have never had an accident involving another car at the track I go to and its been around for over 20 years.

Doesn't this look fun??

[4thGen427CI]

Originally Posted by RedJewelSS

my friend just got his new 5.0 and brought it by for a photo session with my ss.

he parks like an asshat.... his back right tire on your grass just saying.

[Bob Cosby]

Several years ago, I got the chance to do a "Car Guys" weekend at Summit Point WV. At the time, I owned a 99 Trans Am. It was an "on track driver's education" type of event. We did three sessions each day. All three on Saturday were with an instructor. The first two on Sunday were with the instructor, and the last one was on our own.



It was indeed an eye-opening experience, and the biggest thing I took away from it was how much I did NOT know about high-performance driving. This was made stupidly clear when I rode shotgun with one of the instructors for a few laps. His car was in the shop, so he had rented a 2000 Mustang V6, automatic. It was absolutely incredible how fast he was taking the corners, how deep he was going before braking, and how soon he was back on the gas. And how embarrasing it was when I discovered he was running nearly identical lap times driving that thing as I was in my 99 T/A M6! He was running it so hard that he had to change brake pads Sunday morning. It was quite an education - I'll never forget it.

That said....I still prefer getting my rocks off on the drag strip. Perhaps because it is a venue in which I have had some success. I don't know....but as thrilling as the road track was, I still prefer the 1/4 mile.

To each their own.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Those pictures make me smile with envy!

mike
dms

[Doc]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

But again, driver skill matters in drag racing. Actually in a drag race you get ONE launch, screw it up and you lose.

I just don't like how you seem to be saying driver skill is not a huge factor in drag racing. It's like saying athleticism doesn't really matter in a 40-yard dash, but it really matters in the Boston Marathon.

I didn't say it wasn't a factor; it is, it always is in racing. But I consider a launch to be a basic skill; you have to be able to launch in order to compete no matter what you're driving. If two cars are very closely matched then the launch can be the difference between winning and losing; it's a true driver's race at that point. Miss a shift and you can lose too, but again being able to shift your transmission is really just a basic skill. Unless you drive an automatic... then the launch is about the only thing you can screw up.

But how many launches do you have to do before being able to launch is no longer an issue; now it's about efficiency of your launch technique? Of course you can launch your car, now it's about trying to get that 60 time down below 2 seconds. How many runs does it take before you get to that point? Skill is generally a matter of exposure to racing and for drag racing, unless you live at the track and can do run after run, it takes months or maybe years to get enough track experience to be really good. For road course racing you can get the equivalent of months of drag racing track exposure in one weekend. To me that's a pretty good bang for your buck.

Don't misunderstand me; drag racing takes skill, no question but it's something you do for a few seconds then it's over. That's why I say it's easier than road course racing which challenges you to be efficient over and over and over at all kinds of speeds again and again and again without stopping. A very different level of effort. To me drag racing is fun, but road racing is "more" fun if you know what I'm saying.

But it IS all fun... and it's great to see those pics of a Camaro, Vette and Mustang on the track...good times!!

[RedJewelSS]

Originally Posted by C6LS2_or_2010camaro_owner

he parks like an asshat.... his back right tire on your grass just saying.

if your not going to read the whole thread then dont post. i explained this a few times. hes my friend, you dont have to insult him either