2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by McRat

Most high performance car owners do not race at all.

They buy their car for the image that racers created.

This is why cars like the CTS-V were created. You know a version of the CTS has ass-raped it's competition. So you buy the car it looks like a CTS-V.

It is no mistake that the CTS-V looks a lot like the CTS. That is the point.

Don't be surprised that only a hotrodder will be able to tell a Challenger from a Hellcat. That is the point.

I didn't mean that guys that buy these cars are only image oriented. More along the line of what the real world experience is with them. They aren't tracked OR drag raced 99% of their life.

My ZL1 has more than enough power to be stupid on the street and I do enjoy taking a 35 MPH off ramp at 80 MPH every time I exit the highway by my house.

Saying that the only people that care about the handling capabilities of the ZL1 are its owner because NO ONE tracks them anyway is missing that being a lopsided 1/4 mile King Kong is more limiting in the real world.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 4VFTW

is the LSA maxxed out at 580hp? if not then GM has allowed it to wither. If so its time for a bigger TVS

GM moved on and put their focus on the Z/28, Stingray and up coming gen 6 Camaro

[rocket403]

The Challenger seats 5 major reason that I was able to trade the family van in for the RT
With three kids I could not get a car that I could not put the whole family in. I did look at the other 2 cars but my son who is 6' 2" could not fit in the back of the Camaro or the Mustang, but no issues in the Challenger.

Took a trip to Detroit for my sons hockey team was able to get all the bags into the trunk and fit the family in, the Challenger is the best all around car for long trips.

Has interior room that my Cutlass has

[v8]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

It also could be the law of diminishing returns. Its easier to make a 14 second car run 13s than it is to make a 13 second car run 12s etc. I do remember though that when the ZL1 came out it was running a lot slower than people had predicted. It was really disappointing and imo still is that a bolt on + DR + tuned SS can run the same times or better just on average. I'd actually like to see the same pro driver take a ZL1 around a track and then a bolt on/tuned/geared SS with a high quality set of coil overs, both cars running the exact same wheel/tire set up. Honestly my money would be on the SS.
I think GM did a fine job with both vehicles but I think Ford and Dodge went in the better direction. The ZL1 is sick but when I can afford a 50k+ car, probably in the next 5-6 years, I wouldn't buy anything like that and I've owned 2 5th gens so far. If I wanted a handling car at that price range there are so many better choices, like you know, the Vette, various Porsches, even used exotics like an Aston.
The Z28 should have just been a SS with some boss ass GM designed coil overs, a great wheel tire set up like the 1LE, slightly upgraded Brembos, and some factory approved bolt ons + a tune. Basically take the 1LE and add about $5-8,000 worth of upgrades.
The ZL1 should have been all out HP like the Gt500 and Hellcat are. That should have been the 65-70k car, not the Z. Instead now we have two cars that handle great but get spanked on the street where 90% of drivers have their fun. If someone wanted a 50k+ Chevy that handles great, that is what the Vette is for. The Camaro is supposed to be the muscle car, all out straight line performance. Thats why Ford and Dodge don't put nearly as much focus on handling.
Just kinda seems like after the 30-40k price tag range the Camaro gets left behind by the Chally and Stang.

I agree with what you are saying.

Originally Posted by 102SS

I hear what your saying but the real world isn't all straight lines.

Being able to challenge on and off ramps is what makes a car fun. JMHO

Besides the fact that the Camaro can never be #1 on the speed charts with Corvette in the stable and the C5/C6 team have their hands tied.

Its too bad that GM can't look past the Corvette and give the Camaro more, or equal power. Even with equal power it would be slower due to weight. There were a lot of people who said the Hellcat would not get more than 640HP, because thats what the Viper has. Good on Dodge for recognizing the Challenger and Viper are two different cars with different buyers.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by v8

Its too bad that GM can't look past the Corvette and give the Camaro more, or equal power. Even with equal power it would be slower due to weight.

I expect to see a 700 HP ZR1 before the next gen ZL1 with the LT4. Its going to be a long wait at the bottom.

[v8]

You got that right, while it will be nice to have a 650HP Camaro I believe you are right in that we have to wait until the ZR1 is out. Don't remember where I read it but GM has publicly stated that the Camaro will not get a power boost similar to the Hellcat.

[McRat]

Originally Posted by 4VFTW

is the LSA maxxed out at 580hp? if not then GM has allowed it to wither. If so its time for a bigger TVS

Uh... The LSA was introduced in 2008 for the 2009 model year. First version was for Cadillac at 556HP.

It's a detuned version of the LS9.

Look up LS9.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by v8

You got that right, while it will be nice to have a 650HP Camaro I believe you are right in that we have to wait until the ZR1 is out. Don't remember where I read it but GM has publicly stated that the Camaro will not get a power boost similar to the Hellcat.

If the next ZL1 weighs 300 lbs less and gets 650 HP it will be A.O.K. in my book. I just hope it comes before 2018

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by McRat

Uh... The LSA was introduced in 2008 for the 2009 model year. First version was for Cadillac at 556HP.

It's a detuned version of the LS9.

Look up LS9.

There are a lot of differences between the LSA and LS9. 1.9 l/rev blower verses 2.3. Powder forged rods verses Titanium. Think heads/valves too. Really two different engines

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

I would be surprised if the Hellcat comes in under $70K base price especially if it really runs high 10's bone stock. As much as I love the new Z/28; I would rather spend that kind of money to run 10's with a DD; then break lap records with a race only car. My 02.

I'm not a 1/4 pro or expert, but do you see this car in the 10s BONE stock?

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

I'm not a 1/4 pro or expert, but do you see this car in the 10s BONE stock?

This has not been proven yet. Just a rumor. No videos, no official statements, nada.

[King T]

Originally Posted by v8

Its too bad that GM can't look past the Corvette and give the Camaro more, or equal power. Even with equal power it would be slower due to weight. There were a lot of people who said the Hellcat would not get more than 640HP, because thats what the Viper has. Good on Dodge for recognizing the Challenger and Viper are two different cars with different buyers.

I think it's more based on that Dodge knows they can sell more Hellcat Challengers than Vipers.

Chevrolet is not the only company with a performance Hierarchy
-A Lamborghini Huracan will never have more power than a Lamborghini Aventador
-A Porsche Boxster/Cayman will never have more power than a 911 (and Porsche is scared of that happening)

The power of the Hellcat could have been based on the sales of the Viper. It has had 2 years to take note and adjust the dialed in hp because of it. If the Viper had sold the numbers that Chrysler had projected (around 2,000/year) then I think the hellcat would have been capped some. With the Viper selling only 591 cars for the whole year in 2013, it is safe to say Dodge is choosing going with a hot hand and giving the Hellcat more than Viper power since it will most likely sell more than the Viper.

The all new Lamborghini Huracan goes for $237,000 and had 700 pre-orders in the first month available for order, while Vipers still sit on the lot.

My question is what does this mean for the Viper? It is said that the Hellcat can't physically fit in the current Viper, so that raises three things for me:
-Will the Viper get a hp boost in the V10 to put it back over the Challenger? It was said the engineers already had to work miracles to get the Gen 5 V10 to pass the emissions standards of today.

-Is this the end of the V10 Viper? We could be seeing a preview of the next Viper engine. But will people like the Viper having a "normal supercharged V8" like other cars in the industry, no longer be unique with a V10?

-Could this be a sign that this is the end of the Viper, and that Fiat (who also owns Ferrari) could care less about the Viper?

[AEP11]

Originally Posted by King T

I think it's more based on that Dodge knows they can sell more Hellcat Challengers than Vipers.

Chevrolet is not the only company with a performance Hierarchy
-A Lamborghini Huracan will never have more power than a Lamborghini Aventador
-A Porsche Boxster/Cayman will never have more power than a 911 (and Porsche is scared of that happening)

The power of the Hellcat could have been based on the sales of the Viper. It has had 2 years to take note and adjust the dialed in hp because of it. If the Viper had sold the numbers that Chrysler had projected (around 2,000/year) then I think the hellcat would have been capped some. With the Viper selling only 591 cars for the whole year in 2013, it is safe to say Dodge is choosing going with a hot hand and giving the Hellcat more than Viper power since it will most likely sell more than the Viper.

The all new Lamborghini Huracan goes for $237,000 and had 700 pre-orders in the first month available for order, while Vipers still sit on the lot.

My question is what does this mean for the Viper? It is said that the Hellcat can't physically fit in the current Viper, so that raises three things for me:
-Will the Viper get a hp boost in the V10 to put it back over the Challenger? It was said the engineers already had to work miracles to get the Gen 5 V10 to pass the emissions standards of today.

-Is this the end of the V10 Viper? We could be seeing a preview of the next Viper engine. But will people like the Viper having a "normal supercharged V8" like other cars in the industry, no longer be unique with a V10?

-Could this be a sign that this is the end of the Viper, and that Fiat (who also owns Ferrrari) could care less about the Viper?

Trust me Dodge has been working on this engine well before the viper was announced much less released. Lack of Viper sales played no part in the HP decided for the HellCat. Look for the Viper to retake the HP thrown with the refresh. Hopefully that will boost sales to where they need to be. If not, we could be saying bye to the viper again.

Makes sense to me if they do follow through with the much lighter Cuda. I cant see them making that car with 700+ and coming in at 34-3600lbs. Just too close to Viper performance in what will be likely an easier car to get that performance out of.

[trainman]

Originally Posted by 4VFTW

is the LSA maxxed out at 580hp? if not then GM has allowed it to wither. If so its time for a bigger TVS

I have a 2012 CTS V Coupe with a 6-speed manual. Pure stock it made 458 rwhp. Just a tune netted 491 rwhp. An AIRAID CAI made it put down 516 rwhp. A ported LSA TB made 525 rwhp. And my latest mods (LS9 cam and springs, Kooks headers, and a 9.55 lower pulley) made 635 rwhp. That's about 750 hp + at the flywheel. The car still idles @ 750 rpm, and with stock mufflers it is totally quiet. Sitting next to me at a stop light you would not even look over at this old Grampa. I do not street race, however I enjoy the power from time to time. Last time out on M&H 275-40-17 drag radials it went 11.18 @ 127 (126.90 actually) mph in the heat with the DA of over 1800'. So I'm pretty close to the specs of the Hellcat (hp, and 12.5 lbs of boost) with just the 1.9 blower compared to their 2.4. So the short answer...no the LSA has not seen it's potential limit. I will be installing some Mickey Thompson DR's on my factory wheels for street use just in case.