Coyote engine Premium

[CordiaDOHC]

I honestly would love the chance to buy the raptor with the hurricane motor in it!

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Well we aren't going to look at that.... nor are we going to look at the fact that its over priced (can you even buy one?), has HORRIBLE gas mileage, nor that its massively underpowered. Down nearly 100hp/100lbft to the 2011 SVT Raptor.

The M1 Abrams has only 90 horsepower per pound and gets really crappy gas mileage... I think it still has better offroad capabilities than a craptor.

Speaking of horsepower in offroad vehicles, I don't know very many offroaders who drag race.

You guys need to figure out what the definition of "Off Road Capability" is before you proclaim that your favorite brand is #1 at it.

[CordiaDOHC]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

The M1 Abrams has only 90 horsepower per pound and gets really crappy gas mileage... I think it still has better offroad capabilities than a craptor.

Speaking of horsepower in offroad vehicles, I don't know very many offroaders who drag race.

You guys need to figure out what the definition of "Off Road Capability" is before you proclaim that your favorite brand is #1 at it.

I wouldnt say its the best. But in its class theres nothing else close.
Chevy dodge and even toyota (even though the tundra isnt a 1500 class truck) dont have anything to compete with this. So within the 1500 class it is the best in that class in the offroading category.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Blah blah blah....

Do a little research.

Your price "Comparison" is useless. You're comparing the "Alpha" version of the H3. It's a special edition with a premium price. The BASE H3 is only $33,390, and the specs listed for the BASE model make it a far more capable offroad vehicle than the SOL Craptor.

Go back and read the topic. The claim was made that the Craptor was the most capable offroad vehicle ever made.

My point is that by ANY criteria that an offroad person cares about, the lowly I-5 powered H3 Base model runs rings around the Craptor.

Even if the H3 was $100,000 base price, that doesn't change the fact that the Craptor is NOT "the most capable Offroad Vehicle".

Sorry.

LOL!!!!!

Obviously my opinion is as worthless as yours in this matter, so If I REALLY cared I'd go talk to my cousin who loves the Raptor and has run the Baja before. I'd site all sorts of qualifications which would diminish your argument, but i really don't care. If you feel that the hummer is the best off roading car you can buy (in china lmao.) then good for you. Have fun with your Kansas Beachfront property.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Blah blah blah....

Do a little research.

Your price "Comparison" is useless. You're comparing the "Alpha" version of the H3. It's a special edition with a premium price. The BASE H3 is only $33,390, and the specs listed for the BASE model make it a far more capable offroad vehicle than the SOL Craptor.

Go back and read the topic. The claim was made that the Craptor was the most capable offroad vehicle ever made.

My point is that by ANY criteria that an offroad person cares about, the lowly I-5 powered H3 Base model runs rings around the Craptor.

Even if the H3 was $100,000 base price, that doesn't change the fact that the Craptor is NOT "the most capable Offroad Vehicle".

Sorry.

Mine was a 2007 H3... got a very base model for like 25K (GM employee pricing, rebates and an manual tranny! LOL)

[syr74]

This is just silly. Brand loyalty aside there is absolutely no doubt that Raptor is a far more impressive vehicle than either the H2 or H3 because the truck is just so much better at what it is meant to do. Case in point? Auto journalists have already talked about traveling 70mph and more in this truck over the sand with absolutely no problems and without a racing driver behind the wheel, no other truck in the world can go to a course like Baja stock and even come close to those speeds including anything built by Hummer. Want to try? I suggest you take a trailer and a tow vehicle with you because you'll be needing them in about ten minutes.

To add insult to injury Raptor has the ground clearance, durability (many of the parts that make the Raptor unique are built by military contractors) and axle travel to be an effective vehicle in any type of off-road excursions....she just happens to really excel at the fast stuff. Hummer can't even remotely claim to have built anything that can effectively do the latter at anything greater than mall parking lot, speed-bump velocities.

Throw in the fact that Raptor is cheaper and handles better on road than almost any regular, four wheel drive pickup and it isn't a curiosity why this truck is a star and the H3/H2 never were. The Hummer brand was arguably a poor fit for GM from the outset, and the approach they took with the trucks they designed and built did little to help. To be blunt a K5 revival would have made infinitely more sense and would have likely outsold the entire Hummer lineup combined.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by syr74

This is just silly. Brand loyalty aside there is absolutely no doubt that Raptor is a far more impressive vehicle than either the H2 or H3 because the truck is just so much better at what it is meant to do. Case in point? Auto journalists have already talked about traveling 70mph and more in this truck over the sand with absolutely no problems and without a racing driver behind the wheel, no other truck in the world can go to a course like Baja stock and even come close to those speeds including anything built by Hummer. Want to try? I suggest you take a trailer and a tow vehicle with you because you'll be needing them in about ten minutes.

To add insult to injury Raptor has the ground clearance, durability (many of the parts that make the Raptor unique are built by military contractors) and axle travel to be an effective vehicle in any type of off-road excursions....she just happens to really excel at the fast stuff. Hummer can't even remotely claim to have built anything that can effectively do the latter at anything greater than mall parking lot, speed-bump velocities.

You guys crack me up! The past 2 days you've all spent trying to argue that the raptor is the best off road truck ever made and the only thing you can come up with is that it can go fast in a race over sand dunes.

Give me a break. Real off roading involves a lot more than going fast.

Throw in the fact that Raptor is cheaper and handles better on road than almost any regular, four wheel drive pickup and it isn't a curiosity why this truck is a star and the H3/H2 never were. The Hummer brand was arguably a poor fit for GM from the outset, and the approach they took with the trucks they designed and built did little to help. To be blunt a K5 revival would have made infinitely more sense and would have likely outsold the entire Hummer lineup combined.

Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you start making claims like "Throw in the fact that Raptor is cheaper and handles better on road than almost any regular, four wheel drive pickup"??? That's a pretty lame argument considering the premium price of the Raptor and the fact that you throw in qualifiers like "almost" and "regular" so that examples of superior handling and less expensive trucks can be discounted by you.

[Zhawk]

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

Kind of like people who buy the Camaro SS and wont exceed anything that the V6 wont do

True, but I have an expeditor at work with a V6 Camaro who chirps the tires every chance he gets (why a V6? The Air Force doesn't pay him enough for a wife and an SS. -Hey , he loves his V6)

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

You guys crack me up! The past 2 days you've all spent trying to argue that the raptor is the best off road truck ever made and the only thing you can come up with is that it can go fast in a race over sand dunes.

Give me a break. Real off roading involves a lot more than going fast.



Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you start making claims like "Throw in the fact that Raptor is cheaper and handles better on road than almost any regular, four wheel drive pickup"??? That's a pretty lame argument considering the premium price of the Raptor and the fact that you throw in qualifiers like "almost" and "regular" so that examples of superior handling and less expensive trucks can be discounted by you.

bLarhg GLABHS BALLHS BLAHBLAHBLAH

[Zhawk]

Originally Posted by syr74

... (many of the parts that make the Raptor unique are built by military contractors) ...

No offense, my friend, but I know that Harley Dividson made a couple of parts for military aircraft and that alone makes them 'military contractors'. Does that alone maek them the only motorcycle worth having? Heck GM, Ford, Chrysler, GE, and a lot of other manufacturers have been military contractors. There's almost no end to the companies that can claim the title of military contractor.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

You guys crack me up! The past 2 days you've all spent trying to argue that the raptor is the best off road truck ever made and the only thing you can come up with is that it can go fast in a race over sand dunes.

The fact that you feel the need to try and belittle that capability so consistently says more than any retort that I will make. Still, the reality is that the same superb suspension tuning which allows the Raptor to literally cruise through rough desert terrain will also allow it to make short work of old gravel pits, washed out coal camp roads, and even marshy/swampy terrain and will allow the Raptor to do so at speeds that don't resemble those encountered in a mall parking lot. This capability has real world benefits for everybody, including people in the Appalachian mountain region where I live for obvious reasons.

In fact, I would argue that for people who actually use their 4wd out of necessity and not primarily for play at the local rock crawling convention Raptor is far more usable and practical for possessing that capability. Yeah, you give up some break over angle and ground clearance to the H3, but the difference isn't particularly large and it certainly doesn't make up for the H3's complete inability to cross rough terrain at speed, and the same excellent wheel travel and dampening characteristics which make the Raptor so adept at high speed travel help keep all four tires in contact with the ground at all times whatever the obstacle. And therein lies the rub, Raptor can do all the things you claim to be so important even if there are some vehicles which are better suited to the same. H3 can't cross rough terrain at speed at all, it isn't even a player.

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you start making claims like "Throw in the fact that Raptor is cheaper and handles better on road than almost any regular, four wheel drive pickup"??? That's a pretty lame argument considering the premium price of the Raptor and the fact that you throw in qualifiers like "almost" and "regular" so that examples of superior handling and less expensive trucks can be discounted by you.

Unless you are comparing Raptor to the H3, which would be ridiculous considering the Raptor is a full size truck, there is no comparison. Raptor is so much cheaper than H2 it should, and likely does, induce giggles. As for superior handling of lesser trucks, apparently it isn't even close. Reviewers have thus far indicated that Raptor easily trumps the handling and ride of any of the lesser, 4wd, Ford F-Series models, and since that truck is effectively the class benchmark dynamically speaking that makes this is a pretty easy conclusion to arrive at.

Hummers were overpriced Tahoes and Colorados with no overhang and a lift kit, and the market responded appropriately.

Originally Posted by Zhawk

No offense, my friend, but I know that Harley Dividson made a couple of parts for military aircraft and that alone makes them 'military contractors'. Does that alone maek them the only motorcycle worth having? Heck GM, Ford, Chrysler, GE, and a lot of other manufacturers have been military contractors. There's almost no end to the companies that can claim the title of military contractor.

The remote shock setup employed on the Raptor is basically the same military grade stuff used by the Humvee and Supacat, so this isn't simple jargon. This brings up a great point. Raptor offers the same military grade shock setup used on the militarys Humvees but the Hummer brand wouldn't offer you the same equipment on a H2 or H3. Think about that.

Of course, you don't need military grade hardware to crest parking lot speed bumps while rolling on twenty six inch rims, so I understand why GM didn't bother.

[1320junkie]

I know we talk about other cars etc..but is this the first time we had a 4x4 off roading debate?

[meanmike]

[QUOTE=syr74;1086835]Of course, you don't need military grade hardware to crest parking lot speed bumps while rolling on twenty six inch rims, so I understand why GM didn't bother.[/QUOTE]

Lol!

[meanmike]

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

I know we talk about other cars etc..but is this the first time we had a 4x4 off roading debate?

It is a change.