New Cherokee unveiled

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

I am just as irked about the Explorer turning into a glorified mini-van. At least with the trailblazer, they didn't try to recycle the name. It's worse for Jeep, though. That brand has a 70 year history behind it that is being sold short. Explorer and trailblazer were only around for about 20 and 10 years respectively, and those were just individual model names, not an entire brand.

I don't see why they need to do this to the Jeep brand to keep it alive. Why can't the Grand Cherokee and Wrangler survive on their own? How does the existence of a badge engineered Dart as a Jeep, which shares nothing but name alone with those vehicles make them more viable as individual models?

CAFE applies to all of Chrysler in general, not individual brands. So why not sell the Dart as just a Dodge instead of diluting Jeep with it and forcing Chrysler's individual brands to compete against each other? I know all companies badge engineer, but this is one of the worst forms of it. If they want another brand to badge engineer with that badly, why not make a Chrysler version of these FWD Dodges...(actually Fiats).



It should be called the Compliance....or the Surrender.

I don't think this Cherokee or even the Compass are based off the dart platform are they? Huge shock if so!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

I am just as irked about the Explorer turning into a glorified mini-van. At least with the trailblazer, they didn't try to recycle the name. It's worse for Jeep, though. That brand has a 70 year history behind it that is being sold short. Explorer and trailblazer were only around for about 20 and 10 years respectively, and those were just individual model names, not an entire brand.

I don't see why they need to do this to the Jeep brand to keep it alive. Why can't the Grand Cherokee and Wrangler survive on their own? How does the existence of a badge engineered Dart as a Jeep, which shares nothing but name alone with those vehicles make them more viable as individual models?

CAFE applies to all of Chrysler in general, not individual brands. So why not sell the Dart as just a Dodge instead of diluting Jeep with it and forcing Chrysler's individual brands to compete against each other? I know all companies badge engineer, but this is one of the worst forms of it. If they want another brand to badge engineer with that badly, why not make a Chrysler version of these FWD Dodges...(actually Fiats).



It should be called the Compliance....or the Surrender.

LOL, some good points, but 1 high mileage car would not cover all the Chrysler brands and the more they have the more High performance cars (Charger, Challenger, Viper, 300) and SUVs (GC, Wrangler, Durango) they can continue to build. It is alo mrketing too. They could have made it a Dodge, but it wouldn't carry the SUV name recognition Jeep does. It is very possible that some versions of this may be extremely capable offroad. Heck my Patriot surprised me MANY times when taking the dogs in the hills for a nice run and it was just the basic 4WD/AWD. It's kind of like how the 84 Cherokee and then Grand Cherokee bucked trends going unibody, and the newest Range Rover/Land Rover models have much more in common with cars than trucks and they still do great offroad and no one says they don't live up to their heritage. It's a changing world and manufacters that don't change with it will be left behind. Yes the looks leave something to be desired in the CHerokee, then the Nissan juke doesn't seem to have a problem finding customers. They are all over the place here..

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I have 16,000 problem free miles on my 2012 Grand Cherokee Limited.

I think Chrysler products are much better than they get credit for. My father-in-law has a 2009 Dodge truck and a 2007 300C that have both been problem free.

The build quality comment wasn't directed toward the Grand Cherokee, Ram, or any other non-related Chryslers. It was specifically aimed at this Cherokee, which according to the article, will be based on an Alfa. (I spelled it right this time). Sorry for any confusion.

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

I don't think this Cherokee or even the Compass are based off the dart platform are they? Huge shock if so!

Just going by the original article in post 1 of this thread...it seemed to say this will be build off the same platform the Dart is.

Originally Posted by Stew

LOL, some good points, but 1 high mileage car would not cover all the Chrysler brands and the more they have the more High performance cars (Charger, Challenger, Viper, 300) and SUVs (GC, Wrangler, Durango) they can continue to build.

I thought the CAFE calculation was based not on the number of models, but on sales. In other words, it is my understanding that splitting equal sales of a higher mileage car into two badge engineered vehicle instead of one would have no benefit. Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by Stew

It is alo mrketing too. They could have made it a Dodge, but it wouldn't carry the SUV name recognition Jeep does. It is very possible that some versions of this may be extremely capable offroad.

I understand the marketing angle perfectly, and it is that which I am a bit upset about. I see it as using a good name to sell a product that may not live up to that name. That doesn't make the product better, it just erodes the good name. (Think Cadillac Cimarron...attaching the Cadillac name didn't help the car, it just hurt Cadillac).

And some versions of it may well be capable off road, but we both know what 4WD take rate on a small, economy minded crossover SUV is going to be. Many of these will be glorified hatchbacks that can't handle snow, let alone rocks.

NOW....if they did something like make all the Jeep versions built off this platform AWD...kinda like Subaru does, maybe I could see it.

Originally Posted by Stew

It's a changing world and manufacters that don't change with it will be left behind. Yes the looks leave something to be desired in the CHerokee, then the Nissan juke doesn't seem to have a problem finding customers. They are all over the place here..

That may be, but as long as the Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, or others like it are still viable as individual products, why does the brand have to be watered down?

Ultimately, I recognize that the world is changing, but to be honest, in that case, if it came to a moment when there was no demand for actual Jeeps, I would rather see the brand die and be replaced than see the brand become a shell of its former self.

For example, yes, it was a sad day when Pontiac died...but would you rather have watched it struggle on as what it had turned into, trying to convince those not paying close enough attention of the "sportiness" of the G3, G5, Torrent, and SV6? The brand may have died, but would the alternative have been any way to live?

Also, to be clear, I am not talking about the company, I am talking about the brand. I know that building different and new types of vehicle is necessary if Chrysler is going to survive, and I am fine with that. There is nothing wrong with a small, FWD crossover if that is what people need or are buying...I just don't like the misuse of the Jeep brand. A brand should mean something. If people don't want Jeeps anymore, make something else, but call it something else, too.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

The build quality comment wasn't directed toward the Grand Cherokee, Ram, or any other non-related Chryslers. It was specifically aimed at this Cherokee, which according to the article, will be based on an Alfa. (I spelled it right this time). Sorry for any confusion.



Just going by the original article in post 1 of this thread...it seemed to say this will be build off the same platform the Dart is.



I thought the CAFE calculation was based not on the number of models, but on sales. In other words, it is my understanding that splitting equal sales of a higher mileage car into two badge engineered vehicle instead of one would have no benefit. Am I wrong?



I understand the marketing angle perfectly, and it is that which I am a bit upset about. I see it as using a good name to sell a product that may not live up to that name. That doesn't make the product better, it just erodes the good name. (Think Cadillac Cimarron...attaching the Cadillac name didn't help the car, it just hurt Cadillac).

And some versions of it may well be capable off road, but we both know what 4WD take rate on a small, economy minded crossover SUV is going to be. Many of these will be glorified hatchbacks that can't handle snow, let alone rocks.

NOW....if they did something like make all the Jeep versions built off this platform AWD...kinda like Subaru does, maybe I could see it.



That may be, but as long as the Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, or others like it are still viable as individual products, why does the brand have to be watered down?

Ultimately, I recognize that the world is changing, but to be honest, in that case, if it came to a moment when there was no demand for actual Jeeps, I would rather see the brand die and be replaced than see the brand become a shell of its former self.

For example, yes, it was a sad day when Pontiac died...but would you rather have watched it struggle on as what it had turned into, trying to convince those not paying close enough attention of the "sportiness" of the G3, G5, Torrent, and SV6? The brand may have died, but would the alternative have been any way to live?

Also, to be clear, I am not talking about the company, I am talking about the brand. I know that building different and new types of vehicle is necessary if Chrysler is going to survive, and I am fine with that. There is nothing wrong with a small, FWD crossover if that is what people need or are buying...I just don't like the misuse of the Jeep brand. A brand should mean something. If people don't want Jeeps anymore, make something else, but call it something else, too.

Good conversation. I agree i wish they could just concentrate on true grit offroaders, but as long as they keep the core models intact I am ok with a couple crossovers. THe Wrangler and GC are still Jeep's best sellers by far and I don't see that changing and i think they are smart enough to realize this. The good thing is that they are showing they are listening to the enthusiast. IE, the GC getting a diesel for 14, and there is a very good chance we will see adiesel Wrangler in a few years and possibly even a Wrangler pickup. If they have to throw a bone out to get enough sales from a couple crossovers (CHerokee (they should have kept Liberty) or Compass (they should have kept Patriot as even after the compasses 11 redesign the Patriot is still the better seller 2 to 1, though I am sure it's XJ looks helped). I am happy with what I am seeing though on the core models. The GC is quite possibly the best all arounder out there, the Wrangler is still the rough and tough offroader it always was, but now have a nice interior and actually features required in todays market. The last gen Liberty never was a great seller and took nothing but heat from all the auto journalists since it was introduced. As for Cafe, if I am not mistaken it is an average for every vehicle a manufacturer makes so the platform isn't important, but the more higher mileage vehicles they make and can sell, the more lower MPG ones they can make. I actually don't think a Cherokee with the 3.2 V6, 9 speed auto and AWD/4WD would be a bad vehicle for daily driving and some offroading fun. One thing I always liked about my Patriot is that I could get 30 MPG driving back and forth through the the week, then takes the dogs in the hills, lock the 4WD, and go wherever I needed to on the weekends. Seeing what did with the old Caliber platform makes me hopeful they can do a lot more with a platform that is probably 10 times better. oh, on build quality, there is less in common with alfa than you think. THe platform is based on an alfa platform, but is a larger and wider specifically for the North American Market. the drivetrain, engine (at least the top, it will have a 4 cyclinder which could be Fiats 1.4 turbo, or more likely IMHO, Chryslers 2.4 tigershark), transmission (new 9 speed auto), interior (based on the excellent new interiors found in vehicles like the Ram, Charger, GC, Dart,etc) etc, etc are all Chrysler designed and built..

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Stew

Good conversation. I agree i wish they could just concentrate on true grit offroaders, but as long as they keep the core models intact I am ok with a couple crossovers. THe Wrangler and GC are still Jeep's best sellers by far and I don't see that changing and i think they are smart enough to realize this. The good thing is that they are showing they are listening to the enthusiast. IE, the GC getting a diesel for 14, and there is a very good chance we will see adiesel Wrangler in a few years and possibly even a Wrangler pickup. If they have to throw a bone out to get enough sales from a couple crossovers (CHerokee (they should have kept Liberty) or Compass (they should have kept Patriot as even after the compasses 11 redesign the Patriot is still the better seller 2 to 1, though I am sure it's XJ looks helped). I am happy with what I am seeing though on the core models. The GC is quite possibly the best all arounder out there, the Wrangler is still the rough and tough offroader it always was, but now have a nice interior and actually features required in todays market. The last gen Liberty never was a great seller and took nothing but heat from all the auto journalists since it was introduced. As for Cafe, if I am not mistaken it is an average for every vehicle a manufacturer makes so the platform isn't important, but the more higher mileage vehicles they make and can sell, the more lower MPG ones they can make. I actually don't think a Cherokee with the 3.2 V6, 9 speed auto and AWD/4WD would be a bad vehicle for daily driving and some offroading fun. One thing I always liked about my Patriot is that I could get 30 MPG driving back and forth through the the week, then takes the dogs in the hills, lock the 4WD, and go wherever I needed to on the weekends. Seeing what did with the old Caliber platform makes me hopeful they can do a lot more with a platform that is probably 10 times better. oh, on build quality, there is less in common with alfa than you think. THe platform is based on an alfa platform, but is a larger and wider specifically for the North American Market. the drivetrain, engine (at least the top, it will have a 4 cyclinder which could be Fiats 1.4 turbo, or more likely IMHO, Chryslers 2.4 tigershark), transmission (new 9 speed auto), interior (based on the excellent new interiors found in vehicles like the Ram, Charger, GC, Dart,etc) etc, etc are all Chrysler designed and built..

Chrysler has certainly stepped up its game with most of its products lately. I go to the Chicago Auto show every year, and the difference in the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep interiors of today compared to just 4 years ago make it seem like they aren't even from the same company. That 9-speed transmission, though, could set off a whole different debate, so I'll avoid that for now.

Just curious about your Patriot, you say it did have a lockable 4WD system? Did it have things like a low range and skidplates as well? I think if they made all the Cherokees like that, I could support them on it. I just don't want to have to know about a base, FWD, no capability version. That would be a blemish on an otherwise good brand....it would feel kinda like that base engine Cadillac dumped into an otherwise outstanding ATS. You don't have to buy it, but you still know its out there.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Chrysler has certainly stepped up its game with most of its products lately. I go to the Chicago Auto show every year, and the difference in the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep interiors of today compared to just 4 years ago make it seem like they aren't even from the same company. That 9-speed transmission, though, could set off a whole different debate, so I'll avoid that for now.

Just curious about your Patriot, you say it did have a lockable 4WD system? Did it have things like a low range and skidplates as well? I think if they made all the Cherokees like that, I could support them on it. I just don't want to have to know about a base, FWD, no capability version. That would be a blemish on an otherwise good brand....it would feel kinda like that base engine Cadillac dumped into an otherwise outstanding ATS. You don't have to buy it, but you still know its out there.

A agree no Jeeps should ever be 2WD. On the Patriot, they offered 2 4WD systems. The first one, and the one mine had (Freedom Drive 1 , was more basic, lockable AWD with no low ranger and the only way to get 4WD with a manual transmission. The second is part of an off-road group (freedom drive 2). in 07-09 that gave you an extra inch of ground clearance, skid plates, low range (part of the CVT automatic), a more sophisticated 4WD system that could transfer the power to each wheel instead of just front and rear, hill decent control, wider tires, fog lamps, and front and rear tow hooks. They started offeing everything but the low range in a new package in 11 called the all weather package that had everything basically but the CVT/low ranger. The big downfall to the offroad group is MPG dropped drastically, 5 HWY MPG compared to a 5 speed FD1 or 2 to a CVT equipped FD1.

[Kyle2k]

I hate to admit this car doesn't look nearly as terrible as it did the first time I saw it.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Stew

A agree no Jeeps should ever be 2WD. On the Patriot, they offered 2 4WD systems. The first one, and the one mine had (Freedom Drive 1 , was more basic, lockable AWD with no low ranger and the only way to get 4WD with a manual transmission. The second is part of an off-road group (freedom drive 2). in 07-09 that gave you an extra inch of ground clearance, skid plates, low range (part of the CVT automatic), a more sophisticated 4WD system that could transfer the power to each wheel instead of just front and rear, hill decent control, wider tires, fog lamps, and front and rear tow hooks. They started offeing everything but the low range in a new package in 11 called the all weather package that had everything basically but the CVT/low ranger. The big downfall to the offroad group is MPG dropped drastically, 5 HWY MPG compared to a 5 speed FD1 or 2 to a CVT equipped FD1.

..so they had a low range as part of the CVT. If the CVT is nixed, does that mean no low range will be available?

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

I hate to admit this car doesn't look nearly as terrible as it did the first time I saw it.

No, it's worse I know, I know subjective.

People are buying Nissans (Leaf, Cube, Juke, etc) so why not Jeep.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

..so they had a low range as part of the CVT. If the CVT is nixed, does that mean no low range will be available?

It would for the current Gen, but next gens are supposed to get a "real" low range. One curiousity, the 2014 Patriot and compass, last hyear for this Gen of Compass and the Patriot altogether, gets a conventional 6 speed auto, though the off-road model keeps the CVT.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by snizzle

No, it's worse I know, I know subjective.

People are buying Nissans (Leaf, Cube, Juke, etc) so why not Jeep.

Hey now, I never said it looked good enough to buy!

[TaylorRyanSS]

Jeep Juke! lol

I do like the Grand Cherokee facelift.

[King T]

Chrysler lets 2014 Jeep Cherokee details fly ahead of New York auto show debut

James Fenimore Cooper's famous novel, The Last of the Mohicans, was set in 1757, on the Hudson River around Glens Falls, NY, during the French and Indian War. If you travel the Hudson River Valley today, you'll see the last remnants of an entirely different "tribe" thriving even today—the very rectangular XJ model Jeep Cherokee built between 1984-2001.

Anywhere snow or off reading happens, the vehicle that arguably started the modern SUV era can still be found in surprising numbers. By the time that then-Daimler-Chrysler chief executive Wolfgang Bernhard killed the evergreen Cherokee, 2.88 million had been made in America alone. The model lived on another four years being made for domestic consumption in China.

Apparently, Mr. Bernhard came to America and killed a golden goose. Aside from its introductory year, the old boxy Cherokee sold as many as 286,000 units and never sold fewer than 120,000. The Jeep Liberty only exceeded 120,000 units sold in five of its twelve model years, has never come close to 200,000 sold, and has moved as few as 43,500 units in 2009. The Liberty retained the Cherokee name in export markets, but the Chrysler executives at the home office knew better than to use that nameplate here because the rig named the Liberty was an unworthy heir.

For 2014, the new Jeep Cherokee is supposed to debut at the New York International Auto Show in late March. Apparently, Chrysler's new owner, FIAT, couldn't wait that long. Though exact engine and transmission specifications and pricing remain to be announced, the Cherokee is officially back in America come this fall and official photos of the exterior have been released. The 2014 Cherokee is rumored to be built upon a variant of the chassis underpinning the Dodge Dart II, itself a project that shares commonality with the Alfa Romeo Giulietta. The speculation is that the Cherokee will be powered by a 3.2L V6 mated to a nine speed ZF sourced transmission.

Between the photos, what is known about the chassis, and the rumored power train combinations, one thing is abundantly clear—the new Cherokee is not going to be as rough and ready as was its forefather. The photos portray not a "Trail Rated" machine, but something like a crossover, more spiritually related to the Jeep Patriot or Compass than the Cherokees of old, a model that still tackles rally races from Baja to Macedonia.

Even if the new Cherokee comes with all wheel drive, or somehow a hardcore 4WD version is announced on paper, it's difficult to imagine this version capturing the hearts and minds of Jeep enthusiasts. Just look at the front air dam. There is too much overhang of bodywork to take this vehicle seriously as an off road capable machine once its loan is paid off. The look of the new Cherokee and the use of a front wheel driven chassis strongly suggests that this version will forever be a "soft roader," a competitor to every AWD crossover on the market.

Strategically, there's nothing wrong with that approach. The question is this: Is the new Cherokee still a Jeep? Judge for yourself at the New York International Auto Show in March.

[supercharged zl1]