Soccer dad WAR: CTS-V wagon vs Grand Cherokee SRT-8

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I may sound stupid here but isn't braking kind of pointless without traction? Doesn't AWD vehicles provide much more traction that their FWD/RWD counterparts?

You are correct with the first part, but what? on your second part? WHY would two more drive wheels mean anything different for stopping/handling. (Though with AWD, handling could be affected for the positive if the electronic management systems are good.)

Because, either way, you punch it, and the front tires break loose (understeer), it doesn't matter HOW many horsepower is connected to the front wheels, everything is now gone. Until Stabilitrack (or whatever) realizes this, then grabs down on the rear wheels in an attempt to slow the vehicle down enough that the front tires regain traction.
The same can be said for the rear tires as well.

Or if you are punching the brakes through the floor to avoid granny that just stopped for a cat, how does AWD make a difference? All tires are asking for brakes, weight is transferred to the front of the vehicle, and it doesn't matter how the drive layout of the vehicle sits, and ABS equipped FWD is going to stop the same as an ABS equipped RWD, the same as an ABS equipped AWD (provided all were similar weights, and TIRES).

Just because a vehicle has two more drive wheels, doesn't mean it is automatically better then the next vehicle that doesn't have the extra drive wheels. But in the hands of a good enough driver, either could outperform the other.

TIRES are your biggest and main contributor to traction. Noobs up here with 4x4 or AWD think they can own the snow and ice, with the false sense of security they create (better traction availability under good conditions). What do you see most in ditches? Yep 4x4 and AWD vehicles.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by TheCaptain

You are correct with the first part, but what? on your second part? WHY would two more drive wheels mean anything different for stopping/handling. (Though with AWD, handling could be affected for the positive if the electronic management systems are good.)

Because, either way, you punch it, and the front tires break loose (understeer), it doesn't matter HOW many horsepower is connected to the front wheels, everything is now gone. Until Stabilitrack (or whatever) realizes this, then grabs down on the rear wheels in an attempt to slow the vehicle down enough that the front tires regain traction.
The same can be said for the rear tires as well.

Or if you are punching the brakes through the floor to avoid granny that just stopped for a cat, how does AWD make a difference? All tires are asking for brakes, weight is transferred to the front of the vehicle, and it doesn't matter how the drive layout of the vehicle sits, and ABS equipped FWD is going to stop the same as an ABS equipped RWD, the same as an ABS equipped AWD (provided all were similar weights, and TIRES).

Just because a vehicle has two more drive wheels, doesn't mean it is automatically better then the next vehicle that doesn't have the extra drive wheels. But in the hands of a good enough driver, either could outperform the other.

TIRES are your biggest and main contributor to traction. Noobs up here with 4x4 or AWD think they can own the snow and ice, with the false sense of security they create (better traction availability under good conditions). What do you see most in ditches? Yep 4x4 and AWD vehicles.

Tires and driver make all the difference in the world, BUT from having the "joy" of driving all 3 in snow and icy conditions, the AWD IS superior. Take the recent snows we have had, driveway at home is completely covered in ice, and I have had the joy of getting the patriot, Regal, and Dakota all out for driving. the only one to have zero issues has been Jeep with it's AWD. You still have to drive like you have a brain, but advantage in bad weather goes to an AWD vehicle period.

[Scrappy Doo]

Originally Posted by Number 3

It's simply the worlds fastest wagon vs. the worlds fastest SUV.

The V wagon will outrun the Jeep in pretty much any situation.

So the question is do you need more utility or more performance. That is the tradeoff that I see between these two.

And no, I wouldn't be surprised at how fast the Jeep is nor will I if the new one delivers on the predicted specs. It just going to be heavier, higher and less HP than the V Wagon.

And a lot less MSRP too......

[73camarolt]

Originally Posted by 2010 SSRS

, That caddy is bad azz

[JeSSter]

I just traded a 2006 Trailblazer SS AWD in on my 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS. Bought the Traiblazer new, and it had 150,000 miles on it at trade-in. It had Goodyear RS-As (on its third set at trade in) and handled Southeast Michigan winters just fine, never got stuck. I did put a set of Blizzak tires on the Camaro (18") for winter driving. It is early in the winter, but so far the Camaro handles the snow and ice as good or better than the Trailblazer. If I want to go into the deep snow (> 8-10"), I bring out my F150 Offroad 4X4. It is the ground clearance on the truck that is the difference, the AWD Trailblazer and Rear drive Camaro are pretty much equal........

[Stew]

Originally Posted by JeSSter

I just traded a 2006 Trailblazer SS AWD in on my 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS. Bought the Traiblazer new, and it had 150,000 miles on it at trade-in. It had Goodyear RS-As (on its third set at trade in) and handled Southeast Michigan winters just fine, never got stuck. I did put a set of Blizzak tires on the Camaro (18") for winter driving. It is early in the winter, but so far the Camaro handles the snow and ice as good or better than the Trailblazer. If I want to go into the deep snow (> 8-10"), I bring out my F150 Offroad 4X4. It is the ground clearance on the truck that is the difference, the AWD Trailblazer and Rear drive Camaro are pretty much equal........

Not exactly equal, you are using a dedicated snow tire ( and one of the best out there period) on the Camaro and a factory all season (one of the worst ones BTW, no a fan of RSAs) on the Trailblazer. Switch the tires around and then report back.

[JeSSter]

Not saying apples to apples. Most people buy the Trailblazer SS AWD and intend on driving year round with the factory all-seasons. The performance of this setup was acceptable for me. Most people buy the Camaro and put it up for the winter (here anyway) and buy a junker to drive for the winter. I put on the Blizzaks and say the performance of the Camaro was as good or better than the Trailblazer SS AWD with it's factory all-season tires. I'm sure the Trailblazer SS AWD with Blizzaks would handle winter better......

[Stew]

Originally Posted by JeSSter

Not saying apples to apples. Most people buy the Trailblazer SS AWD and intend on driving year round with the factory all-seasons. The performance of this setup was acceptable for me. Most people buy the Camaro and put it up for the winter (here anyway) and buy a junker to drive for the winter. I put on the Blizzaks and say the performance of the Camaro was as good or better than the Trailblazer SS AWD with it's factory all-season tires. I'm sure the Trailblazer SS AWD with Blizzaks would handle winter better......

Ah, i just messin with ya a bit. I would love to have a set of Blizzaks for the Dakota, but I am a believer in AWD with my little Jeep. Of course the factory Good SR-A on/offroad tires help I am sure (just damned noisy tires lol).

[LostInMoscow]

So tonight I was waiting at a crosswalk, and guess what pulled up to the red light side by side. Yup, you got it, a CTS-V (sedan not wagon) and an SRT-8 Cherokee. I was laughing my ass off thinking about this thread. But, it was in the middle of a raging blizzard. The Cherokee turned left and the CTS-V barely got enough traction to pull forward the 10 feet before he got stuck in traffic. As far as drag races goes, that was about as lame as it gets!

[Number 3]

I can't say I missed any utility driving this one to Florida last week. A very nice automobile. I'm sure the upcomming Jeep will be as well, but it will still be an SUV. Both good choices. But hopefully no one is comparing to the old Jeep whidh was more in line with the Trailblazer SS for performance.

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by Stew

Tires and driver make all the difference in the world, BUT from having the "joy" of driving all 3 in snow and icy conditions, the AWD IS superior. Take the recent snows we have had, driveway at home is completely covered in ice, and I have had the joy of getting the patriot, Regal, and Dakota all out for driving. the only one to have zero issues has been Jeep with it's AWD. You still have to drive like you have a brain, but advantage in bad weather goes to an AWD vehicle period.

Oh i know, AWD is superior, especially a torque-vectoring AWD with some brand new Blizzak DM-V1's!

But it doesn't matter what wheels are drive wheels, if you go too fast into a corner, everything plows. (In snow/ice conditions)

[Capthowdy]

Originally Posted by LostInMoscow

If we're talking about a "no consideration for money" high performance people hauler, then there are lots more crazy options:

Cayenne turbo - 550 HP
X5 M - 555 HP
M63 AMG - 505 HP
Landrover Sport - 510 HP

Personally, I like the Porsche because it's actually a great offroader, high performance, luxurious, has a high towing capacity, and still has curb appeal even if it has questionable looks. Love the Caddy wagon too though! I'd love to drive one!

I wonder if they'll be putting the 392 in the SRT8 now? That would be a nice game changer!

there is a audi wagon that is like 80 g's and has like 700hp....

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I can't say I missed any utility driving this one to Florida last week. A very nice automobile. I'm sure the upcomming Jeep will be as well, but it will still be an SUV. Both good choices. But hopefully no one is comparing to the old Jeep whidh was more in line with the Trailblazer SS for performance.

tracy has fallen in love with the XLR. looks like a two seater will be the next car. i love the cst-V. all of the caddy bodywork is first rate. nothing looks as goods IMO. forward thinking. cutting edge.

[piam101]

Wagon with a manual please!