Toyota Obstructed Justice

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Umm ... GM's market share has gone down several points since 2008. Chrysler has gone down a bit as well. Ford is more or less holding steady.

Through August '10 YTD, Ford is UP 1.4% of Market, Chrysler is UP .15%

GM is DOWN .56% YTD, compared to August '09...

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...results-95168/

There are definite "bright spots" for GM (Buick and Caddy), but closing 4 Divisions has had a toll.

Toyota/Lexus, being DOWN 1/3 of a % with all their "troubles" and C4C comparisons from last year, is really holding its own.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Through August '10 YTD, Ford is UP 1.4% of Market, Chrysler is UP .15%

GM is DOWN .56% YTD, compared to August '09...

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...results-95168/

2008, not 2009

[LOWDOWN]

GM's numbers, '09 over '08...DOWN 30%

And for the year:
2009 total sales 2,084,492
2008 total sales 2,980,688
a difference of -30.1%

Toyota, DOWN 20% '09 over '08.

IIRC, the total market, '09 to '08, was DOWN about 21%.

With those "conclusions", no doubt GM was DOWN Market Share, '09 over '08.

EDIT: 2009 vs. 2008 Sales...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...es_N.htm#chart

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

GM's numbers, '09 over '08...DOWN 30%

And for the year:
2009 total sales 2,084,492
2008 total sales 2,980,688
a difference of -30.1%

Toyota, DOWN 20% '09 over '08.

With those "conclusions", no doubt GM was DOWN Market Share, '09 over '08.

Yes, I knew that. Thats why I said:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

GM's market share has gone down several points since 2008

[LOWDOWN]

Let me rephrase the quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Umm ... GM's market share has gone down several points since 2008. Chrysler has gone down a bit as well. Ford is more or less holding steady.

Chrysler is UP, this year.

Ford is 'way UP, this year.

GM continues their downward trend...

Feel free to take a gander at the above-mentioned links.

BTW, Toyota's numbers are included as this IS a Toyota-themed thread.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Let me rephrase the quote:



Chrysler is UP, this year.

Ford is 'way UP, this year.

GM continues their downward trend...

Feel free to take a gander at the above-mentioned links.

BTW, Toyota's numbers are included as this IS a Toyota-themed thread.

From your own sources (btw, fix your GMI link)


Company - - - 2008% - - -2010 (YTD)%

GM - - - - - - 24.6 - - - - 19.44
Toyota - - - - 15.9 - - - -15.44
Ford - - - - - -15.5 - - -- 16.96
Honda - - - - - 9.6 - - - - 10.81
Chrysler - - - -10.0 - - - - 9.55
Nissan - - - - - 6.9 - - - - -7.95
Hyundai/Kia - - 4.3 - - - - -7.98


Alright, so Ford is up a bit. Chrysler is down marginally, and GM is down a lot. None of that changes the fact that in 2008, the big 3 had over 50% of the US market, and now they don't.

Quick question: why were you posting sales totals as the basis for market share, when actual market share data was included in the links you gave?

[LOWDOWN]

GMi...try post #56 link.

The raw figures were quoted from one source (a GMi posting, actually), the tables subsequently from another source, as per EDIT... You see, when I find a better site or data, I like to include it, without prejudice, as they say in legal circles.

"We've got some positive momentum going into 2010," said Susan Docherty, GM's U.S. sales chief.

What happened?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

From your own sources


Company - - - 2008% - - -2010 (YTD)%

GM - - - - - - 24.6 - - - - 19.44...or DOWN approx. 25%

Ford - - - - - -15.5 - - -- 16.96...or UP approx. 10%

The fact that Domestics are now outsold by Imports lies squarely on GM's, and buyers', shoulders. Kinda brings into perspective that, if Buick and Caddie are doing so darn good, maybe Chev isn't...

[The_Blur]

Has anyone considered that market share might not be the best indicator of profitability or good business in general? One of the reasons GM sold so much stuff is that there were units on the ground for months. Look at truck sales. They had Tahoes and Silverados out there with thousands in rebates because they had been on the lots for 7 months and GM wanted them gone. Some of those sales were artificially generated. With less market share, GM is making more per unit and spending less on production because supply has been lowered to better meet demand on many units.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

One of the reasons GM sold so much stuff is that there were units on the ground for months. Look at truck sales. They had Tahoes and Silverados out there with thousands in rebates because they had been on the lots for 7 months and GM wanted them gone. Some of those sales were artificially generated.

GM, at this very moment, has the Industry's highest incentives...EVER...over $4,000/unit...and sales continue to go downward...

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The fact that Domestics are now outsold by Imports lies squarely on GM's, and buyers', shoulders. Kinda brings into perspective that, if Buick and Caddie are doing so darn good, maybe Chev isn't...

Well, if you want to analyze the relative increase, do it for the Asians as well:

Toyota down 3%
Honda up 13%
Nissan up 15%
Hyundai/Kia up 86%


Ford doesn't look quite so hot now, does it?

[v6sonoma]

Toyota has never made a car that I have ever said I HAVE to have. They make perfectly fine cars. Just not ones I'd want to own. They are no better then GM or Ford. That reality is finally hitting people. Toyotas are not perfect. Everyone here can write a page about an experience where you describe the problems you've had with a given manufacturer. Well news flash! Go to any web site dedicated to a particular car and you'll see that they all have problems and they all produce lemons. In my experience my 99 Sonoma has served me well since new for the past 11 years needing only regular maintenance, and all the other GM cars I've had 83 caviler, 94 sunbird, 2005 CTS, and 2010 Camaro(so far ) have been equally as reliable. Toyota would have to $hit gold and sell it for pennies and have a serious injection of styling to win me over. I'm just glad the playing field has been leveled. Let the Best cars win.

[LOWDOWN]

Gibby, the final thrust of this thread centers on "Domestic vs. Foreign"...NOT a direction I steered it, but one I've supplied FACTS for. That's all.

If GM's continuing slide, as NEW GM, continues, where does/will it end? And there is NO indication a reversal is on the horizon, is there? Regardless of "new" circumstances, you cannot continue to shed your customer base and survive...and 25% market share decline in the past 20 months is damned alarming, NO?

[Number 3]

Well the continued slide is partially due to the fact that only a month or so ago we were still selling the "dead" brands in the previous 12 month period. You don't give up 100,000 G6s per year and not lose big in market share. And oddly there are still very small amounts still being sold.

ALL of the new launches are very much exceeding expectations. Camaro, LaCrosse, Equinox, Terrain, and SRX. All selling superbly well. Just a simple counter to your doom and gloom, Lowdown. And as a simple example, the LaCrosse transaction price is $7,000 more than the car it replaced. The SRX has become Cadillacs number 1 seller.

Ford's biggest success is they swing the big stick in the FST department. They have the newest compared to the Chevrolet/GMC. But even those continue to hold their own. And GM's market share for full size utilities? Well over 70%. No ones even close.

And there is plenty of good stuff in the pipeline that exceeds those 2010 launches.

So no your doom and gloom is not alarming. GM shut down capacity and in many respects can not meet demand. Oshawa just went on line this week to provide more Equinox product. Their simply isn't the flexibility to crank out as much as is needed right now.