[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Now I know it isn't apples to apples but since its a turbo vs na but the explorer hybrid system in the Aviator bumps HP up from 400 to 494 ( and a boat load more torque) Wouldn't it be able to do more in the 5.0 or no because it's NA?

I don't know. I think it would have more to do with how the company calibrates controls. How aggressively does the e-motor come in and when? Are you calibrating for fuel economy, performance, or a bit of both? Not sure engine aspiration is a defining factor.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Those numbers are what they are. I doubt Ford can/will do much about the mass because the architecture is what it is. But don’t forget that the torque assist from an eMotor would be immediate, so the performance comparison would not be a straight lb/hp calculation.

Understood That why I mentioned 0 to 60 mph.

Instant torque (assist) is significant from a standing start. Less so as speed increases. Doesn't seem to fit the bill to replace the GT350R as the "most track capable" Mustang ....ever.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Understood That why I mentioned 0 to 60 mph.

Instant torque (assist) is significant from a standing start. Less so as speed increases. Doesn't seem to fit the bill to replace the GT350R as the "most track capable" Mustang ....ever.

That's why they said "most track capable 5.0L". Basically saying "we put coolers on it so it'll be better than a PP2"

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by oldman

flatplane and better headers, better intake, better CAI = zero weight. I should also add that I have raced 9,000+ plus Honda engines for a long while and even with carbon syncros and a way smaller trans, it is hard on parts shifting at high RPM. The tremec IMO is just too big with gears too heavy, it is build for a high torque load so unless the new Mustang is hybrid (high torque load), a smaller gear size trans would probably be better.

With the T56/TR6060, yes, I agree with what you're getting at.

However, the GT350 uses a version of the TR3160. It is an upgraded version of the ATS and Camaro I4/V6 manual. It is a much newer, lighter-weight transmission design; smaller centerline...

TR6060 vs. TR3160
Centerline: 85mm vs. 81mm
Weight: ~145lbs vs. ~120lbs
Lube: 3.5L vs. 2.7L

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Mountain

If they ring the car out to 7,800 or something, I can see them getting that HP number, but the 450 lb-ft of torque... I mean, I guess, but that 30 lb-ft extra has my attention as to how they get that. Ford is typically conservative with their tunes, so maybe they'll just not do that...

Has me wondering if we could see a 5.0L version of the Aluminator:
https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-A52XS

It's basically CPC version of the GT350 FPC, hopped up a little.

Maybe a Gen 3 Coyote (5.0L) with these items from the Aluminator/GT350:
-Ported/improved GT350 heads
-Similar cams to the Aluminator
-GT350/R valvetrain components
-Boss 302/Cobra Jet style "runner-in-box" intake

I've heard gt350 heads, intake manifold, cai, and maybe even an exhaust similar to the gt500... with some more aggressive cams 525 at the crank could be possible. I mean the bullit was rated at 480 with just a gt350 cai.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by oldman

flatplane and better headers, better intake, better CAI = zero weight. I should also add that I have raced 9,000+ plus Honda engines for a long while and even with carbon syncros and a way smaller trans, it is hard on parts shifting at high RPM. The tremec IMO is just too big with gears too heavy, it is build for a high torque load so unless the new Mustang is hybrid (high torque load), a smaller gear size trans would probably be better.

The tremec from the gt350 that would theoretically be going into the mach1 is not the tr6060, it would be the lighter tr3160 better suited to high rpm applications.

Also from all the sources I've seen this isn't going to get a FPC. The whole point is probably to move away from the voodoo and all of it's problems.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

OP I would say Mustang already has a true SS 1LE competitor. At least for a couple of laps. For 99% of us that is all we will ever use. And yea I hope the Mustangers get the Tremec. It is sooooo good.

Hello Martinjlm.

That is not a true 1le competitor then, as the 1le is a legitimately track capable vehicle regardless of what most people do with them. It's a competitor not a true competitor.

I sure hope the current class action lawsuit going against Ford on the mt82 makes them rethink the whole thing and start putting tremec tr3160s in all manual GTs moving forward.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Mountain

With the T56/TR6060, yes, I agree with what you're getting at.

However, the GT350 uses a version of the TR3160. It is an upgraded version of the ATS and Camaro I4/V6 manual. It is a much newer, lighter-weight transmission design; smaller centerline...

TR6060 vs. TR3160
Centerline: 85mm vs. 81mm
Weight: ~145lbs vs. ~120lbs
Lube: 3.5L vs. 2.7L

Beat me to it lol.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Also from all the sources I've seen this isn't going to get a FPC. The whole point is probably to move away from the voodoo and all of it's problems.

I can dream as much as I like. FPC plus equal length headers...ummm.

[Hops]

lots of articles on the 2021 Mach 1 today reporting 480hp. Also reporting $50k price, and limited production. I wonder how limited it will be, i think the 4 year old ss 1le will still be a competitive value.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Hops

lots of articles on the 2021 Mach 1 today reporting 480hp. Also reporting $50k price, and limited production. I wonder how limited it will be, i think the 4 year old ss 1le will still be a competitive value.

The official press release....

Return of the Mach! Limited-Edition Mach 1 is Pinnacle of Mustang 5.0-Liter V8 Style and Performance • 480 horsepower limited-edition Mach 1 sets a new standard of 5.0-liter V8 track-ready performance in the Mustang lineup while celebrating original model’s aggressive aerodynamic and handling enhancements

• Six-speed manual transmission from Ford Performance and an available 10-speed automatic transmission provides capability on and off the track; available Handling Package delivers even more on-track

• Exterior styling cues include a new front fascia and grilles for both improved cooling and aerodynamics; low-gloss magnetic and black accents as well as hood and side-body stripes with reflective surfaces celebrate Mach 1 heritage dating back more than five decades


DEARBORN, Mich., June 16, 2020 – After a 17-year hiatus, the all-new Mustang Mach 1 fastback coupe makes its world premiere – becoming the modern pinnacle of style, handling and 5.0-liter V-8 pony car performance.

“Bold styling, great acceleration and speed – Mach 1 says it all,” said Jim Farley, Ford’s chief operating officer. “This is one of those special Mustangs that truly brings a smile to the faces of our owners, enthusiasts and fans – including me – so there’s never been a better time to bring back Mach 1 and have it go global too.”

Ford’s quest for speed began with Henry Ford in 1901 and the company’s roots within aerospace only furthered its desire to deliver quicker, faster and more powerful vehicles. Calling back Chuck Yeager’s feat becoming the first to break the sound barrier – Mach 1 – Ford delivered its original Mach 1 in 1969, setting 295 speed and endurance records in its first model year at the Bonneville Salt Flats. Thanks to its added handling capability, Mach 1 teams earned back-to-back SCCA Manufacturer’s Rally Championships in 1969 and 1970.

Like the original, the all-new Mach 1 bridges the gap between Mustang GT and Shelby® models, delivering V-8 power, unique functional aerodynamic enhancements, competition-capable suspension upgrades and a driver-focused cockpit.

All-new Mach 1 muscle The all-new Mustang Mach 1 becomes the most track-capable 5.0-liter Mustang ever, courtesy of a newly designed front end, plus Ford Performance parts from Mustang Shelby GT350 and Shelby GT500 models and an available Handling Package for greater at-limit handling.

Packing a specially calibrated 5.0-liter V8 engine that produces 480 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 420 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,600 rpm, Mach 1 is a fitting celebration of a nameplate born more than 50 years ago.



For news releases, related materials and high-resolution photos and video, visit www.media.ford.com.

2
Integrated into the Mach 1 engine are revised Shelby GT350 components including the intake manifold, oil filter adapter and engine oil cooler, increasing engine oil cooling capability by 50 percent.

The all-new version leans on decades of Ford Performance learnings, wearing a uniquely crafted front end for aerodynamic efficiency and a host of Ford Performance parts that help celebrate its iconic heritage. Mach 1 comes standard with a Tremec™ 3160 6-speed manual transmission from the Shelby GT350. For the first time, Ford has outfitted the system with revmatching and the transmission is paired with the GT350 oil cooler system and Mustang GT’s twin-disc clutch and short-throw shifter.

Drivers can also opt for an available 10-speed SelectShift™ automatic transmission with an upgraded torque converter and unique calibration that enables optimizing torque capability, shift character and overall enhanced performance. A second air-to-oil cooler increases cooling capacity by 75 percent.

Recapturing Mach 1 style The all-new Mach 1’s grille harkens back to the original with a deep 3-D mesh, shark-nosed section and faux lamp elements. Flanking the fascia are new side grilles below each turn signal lamp. A low-gloss Magnetic pony badge is centered on the grille. Low-gloss magnetic and black accents throughout the vehicle provide a premium look while staying true to Mach 1’s bold, muscular heritage, including low-gloss Magnetic mirror caps and rear spoiler.

New 19-inch x 9.5-inch, and 19-inch x 10-inch five-spoke Tarnished Dark-painted aluminum wheels are a modern version of the classic Magnum 500 style wheels. Handling Package vehicles come standard with unique, wider 19-inch x 10.5-inch front, and 19-inch x 11-inch rear Tarnished Dark-painted aluminum wheels.

The Handling Package – exclusively available with the Tremec™ 3160 6-speed manual transmission – also includes a larger unique higher downforce front splitter, new front wheel lip moldings, and a low-gloss Magnetic swing spoiler with a Gurney flap and rear tire spats from Shelby GT500.

Satin Black side and hood stripes are included with reflective accent stripes in any of three colors: Red, White and Orange (Appearance Package only). Exterior color options include the Mach 1 exclusive Fighter Jet Gray (Appearance Package only), as well as Iconic Silver, Shadow Black, Oxford White, Velocity Blue, Twister Orange, Race Red and Grabber Yellow.

The interior features a unique Dark Spindrift instrument panel with aluminum accents. Ebony seats with an accent stripe hint at Mach 1 heritage in cars equipped with a leather interior. Other interior upgrades include new door sill plates, an updated splash screen on the 12.3-inch allLCD instrument cluster, a white cue ball shift knob, and engraved badging that displays the vehicle’s unique chassis number.

Mach 1: Built to perform The Mach 1 engineering and design teams worked in tandem to develop a front end unique to the Mach 1 persona that also meets the high aerodynamic demands of the engine, transmission and braking systems.




For news releases, related materials and high-resolution photos and video, visit www.media.ford.com.

3
A new two-piece upper grille, lower grille and valance, and new side grilles, all contribute to Mach 1’s signature look and more demanding aero and cooling performance requirements.

A front splitter optimized to the fascia shape improves track performance and provides a more aggressive appearance, while a matched rear spoiler works in concert to create ideal lift balance. Mach 1 features 22 percent more downforce than a Mustang GT with Performance Pack Level 1 and the downforce improvement jumps to approximately 150 percent with the Handling Package.

To enhance track endurance, the team added two side heat exchangers – one to cool engine oil, the other transmission oil – as well as a rear axle cooling system and lower diffuser from Shelby GT500.

A new underbelly pan, the vehicle’s most aerodynamically important upgrade, extends 20 inches further rearward than on a Mustang GT Performance Pack to smooth and increase the airflow under the front of the car. Large underwing features in the belly pan increase downforce, while special belly pan airfoils in the brake cooling ramps improve downforce and assist the brake cooling flow – a first for Mustang.

To improve ride and handling, Mach 1 features the latest MagneRide calibration, a stiffer steering I-shaft, new EPAS calibration, stiffer sway bars and front springs, a brake booster from the Mustang GT Performance Pack Level 2, 9.5-inch/10-inch split fitment wheels with Michelin PS4 tires, a rear subframe with stiffer bushings and a rear toe-link from Shelby GT500.

The all-new and limited-edition 2021 Mustang Mach 1 will arrive in U.S. and Canadian Ford dealerships in the spring of 2021.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Hops

lots of articles on the 2021 Mach 1 today reporting 480hp. Also reporting $50k price, and limited production. I wonder how limited it will be, i think the 4 year old ss 1le will still be a competitive value.

I think it will be track dependent, but I would bet on the SS putting up better times. In terms of value clear win for SS1LE. As far as limited I would be shocked if it was any more limited than the Bullitt. First few months will see greedy dealers then discounts eventually. I mean you can Find new Bullitts now for 3-5K off.



My initial reactions

I am surprised Ford didn't up the power at all, my first thought initially was its a Bullitt with stickers and wheels

This car is every Ford guys favorite expression to bash GM a total parts bin car lol. This is what the PP2 should have been from the start. Glad they have the tremec, glad they are offering the A10 and seems like plenty of cooling. Looks wise meh, I am probably in minority but no shaker hood is a big swing and miss for me.

Overall nice package to add to the lineup, but nothing oh my god

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

My initial reactions

I am surprised Ford didn't up the power at all.

This car is every Ford guys favorite GM execuse total parts bin car lol. This is what the PP2 should have been from the start. Glad they have the tremec, glad they are offering the A10 and seems like plenty of cooling. Looks wise meh, I am probably in minority but no shaker hood is a big swing and miss for me.

Overall nice package to add to the lineup, but nothing oh my god

The bold sums up my thoughts. Plus, Ford should have at least tried to catch up to GM with HUD and/or PDR.

[TheRealJA105]

No mention of the tires? I assume the handling pack will have the MPSC2s on it and the regular PS4S.