2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by AEP11

Thanks for the level headed and logical response.

I have nothing to disagree with. I think the ZL1 has a damn good chance of topping it on a road course as well. I just dont think it will be as one sided as some suggest.

No denying the ZL1 is a great track car. 392 has nothing for it on a road course.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed.

Civil conversations on the Internet are possible!

[Oddvious]

Originally Posted by AEP11

Oh man thanks for that lil insider bro. Thats some top secret stuff right there. (Sarcasm)

Its pretty well known that not only fuel table but MANY other pids arent available. So try again to impress me cause youre failing miserably.

Never once did i say AJ cracked pcm's. Where did you pull that from. I said he does swaps. Wire harness and all. Of course you know that since you two are best buds and all! (Im so impressed) can you get me his autograph?

I also said he tunes via the same equip chrysler uses. Them and Arrington has a partnership and gave him full access. But hey what do i know right. Im sure that was the next big insider you were going to let me in on. Lmfao

Of course nothing is available for the hellcat. Wait till its released. Its all about $$$. When theres a will and $$, there is a way. Period.

2017-2018?? So it took diablo 3-4 years to crack this last pcm?? Wrong again



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your such a troll if I gave you my website you would fee awful stupid you have no idea who your even talking to Haaa

You know no one at Chryo give your friends name bud?

AJ does not use Chryo tuning equipment neither does Arrington LOL. You don't know SH*T in fact no one knows that because no one was told the details it was posted and left alone wow you think you know everything hu? Me and AJ are not best buds but me and a few at Aarington are all the info you post is all LX forum posts Good job mister forum of knowledge.

Diablo still hasn't cracked the PCM and it took 2 years for them to partially crack it so yea 2017-18 that's how much you think you know because they claim they have cracked it O.K. Your right again.

IMO your a lil smart ass go back to the LX forums and continue being a toll over their and gathering what you think is good info and FACTS

[AEP11]

Originally Posted by Oddvious

Your such a troll if I gave you my website you would fee awful stupid you have no idea who your even talking to Haaa

You know no one at Chryo give your friends name bud?

AJ does not use Chryo tuning equipment neither does Arrington LOL. You don't know SH*T in fact no one knows that because no one was told the details it was posted and left alone wow you think you know everything hu? Me and AJ are not best buds but me and a few at Aarington are all the info you post is all LX forum posts Good job mister forum of knowledge.

Diablo still hasn't cracked the PCM and it took 2 years for them to partially crack it so yea 2017-18 that's how much you think you know because they claim they have cracked it O.K. Your right again.

IMO your a lil smart ass go back to the LX forums and continue being a toll over their and gathering what you think is good info and FACTS

Are you upset?

Lol at diablo not cracking the pcm but partially cracking it.

I know exactly who im talking to. A nobody. How about you fill me in.

Regardless of equip Aj has full tuning capabilities. What else would he use. Diablo?? Lmao

You claim im a know it all and all that good stuff but youre honestly siting here tooting your own horn on every damn post yet wont expose your greatness.

Prime example. "If i gave you my website you would fee awful stupid you have no idea who your even talking to"

Humility is a good thing. You should go find some...


Fyi. Havent been on LXF in some years. Spend most of my time on svtp. Damn sure not getting any of my info of mopars over there.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Loving these derails. Lol.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by AEP11

Jesus Christ man put down the magazines. Its like you're a magazine puppet.

It must be tough when facts and data stand in the way of your misconceptions. Professional reviews are not perfect, but they do provide a platform for comparison using standardized methodology. Just how different are magazines times vs actual owners? Would you be surprised to see the top 25 fast list posted on ChallengerTalk for the 392 are in line with magazine times?

SRT8Tech 12.253@113.86 1.907 60' 392 A5 stock
Capo 12.395@12.395 1.906 60' 392 A5 Stock
newmoon 12.464@112.00 1.929 60' 392 A5 stock (Error on MPH on time slip)
KyHemiRT 12.517@110.84 1.849 60' 392 A5 stock
SparkChicken 12.566@111.76 1.913 60' 392 A5 stock
Kakdiesel1 12.593@113.71 2.070 60' 392 A5 stock
Flying Dutchman 12.630@111.92 2.033 60' A5 stock
bskylerj 12.650@110.44 1.904 60' 392 A5 stock
555ss 12.685@109.16 1.878 60' 392 M6 Stock
DonP 12.696@110.06 1.912 60' 392 A5 stock
Red Barron 12.744@109.92 2.021 60' M6 Stock
hemi420 12.769@113.35 1.933 60' 392 M6 stock
MrBohica 12.789@115.09 2.1011 60' 392 stock
CrankCase 12.805@109.05 2.007 60' M6 stock
rayzazoo 12.847@109.89 1.976 60' 392 A5 stock
GodsRodsHEMI 12.911@110.33 2.059 60' 392 A5 stock
Hoopester 12.974@112.09 2.059 60' 392 M6 stock
Madcoder 13.013@107.22 2.174 60' 392 A5 stock
Whisky Tango Foxtrot! 13.093@109.31 2.121 60' 392 M6 Stock
Mayra 13.220@107.30 2.161 60' 392 A5 stock
Litos 13.268@106.58 2.119 60' 392 A5 stock
rmeaux 13.320@108.56 2.228 60' 392 M6 stock
SRT8PWR 13.393@108.47 2.272 60' 392 M6 Stock
kwoolums67 13.709@102.79 2.079 60' 392 Stock
AZZKIKR 13.730@102.62 2.146 60' M6 382 Stock
B5Classic 14.350@102.00 2.454 60' 392 M6 Stock

Owners: 12.98 @ 109.4mph
Reviews: 12.85 @ 112.1mph

Originally Posted by AEP11

You love to quote mag results and say what cars dont do in the real world. Well let me tell you ive seen more than a few ZL1's running high 12's @ 109-114 tops. Dont sit here and act like every stock zl1 that runs down the 1/4 hits 12.1's@119mph. They dont, not by a long shot.

So the cars Dodge drops off to Road&Track, MotorTrend and Car&Driver for performance testing aren't real? Not every ZL1 runs 11.7 and not every 392 runs 12.2. This is why we look at averages from professional reviews to see what the car is capable of running in the hands of someone with experience.

Average from professional reviews:
ZL1: 0-60, 4.0 sec; 1/4mile 12.20 @ 118mph
392: 0-60, 4.6 sec; 1/4mile 12.85 @ 112mph
Diff: 0-60, 0.6 sec; 1/4mile 0.65 @ 6mph

Will some owners best these times? Absolutely. Will some cars run stronger than others? Of course. Will some be dogs for some unknown reason. You bet. This is why we look at multiple reviews for an average.

Originally Posted by AEP11

The ZL1 is the same weight as a 392, has 110 more hp so one would think it could put 10mph on it for traps right?? Lets see.

This is where you've gone wrong. You're taking marketed horsepower to compare these cars. Let's look at what these cars are actually putting down.

Edmunds Dyno
392: 452hp/443lb-ft Link
ZL1: 497hp/497lb-ft Link

In reality less than 50hp separate them. 392 is a great motor, no two ways about it. The cars are the same weight, the 50hp difference explains the 0.6 sec difference to 60; 0.65 difference in the quarter and 6mph difference in trap speed.

Originally Posted by AEP11

The hellcat will absolutely annihilate the ZL1 in any form of straight line test and im suspecting it will be a lot closer on the road course than most are expecting.

Given the price differential, I certainly hope so. There is no shame in losing to a car that costs $20,000 more. Around a road course, I hope you're right. Dodge has never taken handling seriously in the Challenger. While the Boss 302/1LE and ZL1/GT500 have gone toe-to-toe on the track, Dodge has been noticeably absent. For years, Dodge has had no answer to the high HP offerings from Chevrolet and Ford. Better late than never I suppose.

Originally Posted by AEP11

Last but not least its hilarious how many are making fun of its weight when a ZL1 is a 4200lb car that still cant seat 4 adults much less 5 like the challenger can. At least the challenger has a reason for its weight. Its a big car with a big space.

I don't think people are making fun of SRT8 weight vs ZL1. It's in relation to the GT, both the SRT and SS look overweight.

GT: 3,618lbs
SS: 3,908lbs
SRT: 4,170lbs

If the Hellcat really does weigh 4440lbs, that is 300lbs more than the ZL1 and 500lbs more than the GT500. Yes it's a roomy car but that's a lot of weight to throw around. Did you buy a Challenger because it can accommodate 5 people?

[URBAN LEGEND]

I think MEDISIN wins this battle. He delivered.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

We're just looking at it differently. Cadillac doesn't offer bare-bones, stripped out base cars then charge thousands for things like keyless entry and other features most manufacturers offer at no cost. If by parroting you mean Cadillac charges more for their performance models than non-performance models, then I ask, who doesn't?



The CTS Vsport starts at $59,995. The CTS is also one class size larger than the ATS and costs $10,000 more than the ATS equipped with the same engine. So add extra for the bigger brakes, suspension for the V model then subtract $10,000 for the size difference and you arrive at my $55,000 - $60,000 estimate.



That's the thing, I don't HAVE to buy a fully loaded Vsport. The BMW 550 and M5 pricing overlaps, as does the E550 and E63 AMG, and the A6 and S6, all depending on options. Which is why I am only speaking in terms of base price. The V isn't fully loaded. Heck, mine had $10,000 in options over the base price.



I just don't understand your obsession with options. I am comparing base prices to base prices. There are way too many variables once you throw options into the equation. You may want them, I may not. Then factor in incentives and actual transaction prices of which Cadillac is considerably lower than competitors as a % under MSRP.

Like I said I hope you are right...........I just don't see it.

Price out an ATS. I have one in my garage. NO leather, NO fold down rear seat, NO backup sensors, NO keyless entry, etc, etc. you have to get the $4,000 luxury package.

So take an ATS with a 3.6 and the performance package. Now add the $5,000 for the twi turbo V6. Pretty sure you are just a hair short of $60,000 right there. That doesn't include the 8speed auto, brakes, chassis and interior enhancements that a V will have.

When I say parroting its because I know that is what GM did on both cars. It's why you actually have a Cadillac without standard leather. That is also why the CTS had a huge price hike in the current generation. Pre ATS GM played the "it's the size of a 5 but the price off the 3" game. Now they are lining up. And if an M3/4 starts in the low 60's if you opt for the manual instead of the DCT you can bet that is were Cadillac will go. Cadillac is trying hard to not be the discounted BMW alternative.

The leftover CTS-V right now is $65,000. And there is no way you will be able to get a new CTS-V for less than a loaded V-sport. Your choice won't be a loaded V-sport or a base V. It's the very reason they came out with the V-sport line.

Again I hope you are right but everything GM has done to position the ATS and CTS suggest much higher pricing than you are hoping for on an ATS-V or CTS-V.

[2doorrocket]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

It must be tough when facts and data stand in the way of your misconceptions. Professional reviews are not perfect, but they do provide a platform for comparison using standardized methodology. Just how different are magazines times vs actual owners? Would you be surprised to see the top 25 fast list posted on ChallengerTalk for the 392 are in line with magazine times?

SRT8Tech 12.253@113.86 1.907 60' 392 A5 stock
Capo 12.395@12.395 1.906 60' 392 A5 Stock
newmoon 12.464@112.00 1.929 60' 392 A5 stock (Error on MPH on time slip)
KyHemiRT 12.517@110.84 1.849 60' 392 A5 stock
SparkChicken 12.566@111.76 1.913 60' 392 A5 stock
Kakdiesel1 12.593@113.71 2.070 60' 392 A5 stock
Flying Dutchman 12.630@111.92 2.033 60' A5 stock
bskylerj 12.650@110.44 1.904 60' 392 A5 stock
555ss 12.685@109.16 1.878 60' 392 M6 Stock
DonP 12.696@110.06 1.912 60' 392 A5 stock
Red Barron 12.744@109.92 2.021 60' M6 Stock
hemi420 12.769@113.35 1.933 60' 392 M6 stock
MrBohica 12.789@115.09 2.1011 60' 392 stock
CrankCase 12.805@109.05 2.007 60' M6 stock
rayzazoo 12.847@109.89 1.976 60' 392 A5 stock
GodsRodsHEMI 12.911@110.33 2.059 60' 392 A5 stock
Hoopester 12.974@112.09 2.059 60' 392 M6 stock
Madcoder 13.013@107.22 2.174 60' 392 A5 stock
Whisky Tango Foxtrot! 13.093@109.31 2.121 60' 392 M6 Stock
Mayra 13.220@107.30 2.161 60' 392 A5 stock
Litos 13.268@106.58 2.119 60' 392 A5 stock
rmeaux 13.320@108.56 2.228 60' 392 M6 stock
SRT8PWR 13.393@108.47 2.272 60' 392 M6 Stock
kwoolums67 13.709@102.79 2.079 60' 392 Stock
AZZKIKR 13.730@102.62 2.146 60' M6 382 Stock
B5Classic 14.350@102.00 2.454 60' 392 M6 Stock

Owners: 12.98 @ 109.4mph
Reviews: 12.85 @ 112.1mph



So the cars Dodge drops off to Road&Track, MotorTrend and Car&Driver for performance testing aren't real? Not every ZL1 runs 11.7 and not every 392 runs 12.2. This is why we look at averages from professional reviews to see what the car is capable of running in the hands of someone with experience.

Average from professional reviews:
ZL1: 0-60, 4.0 sec; 1/4mile 12.20 @ 118mph
392: 0-60, 4.6 sec; 1/4mile 12.85 @ 112mph
Diff: 0-60, 0.6 sec; 1/4mile 0.65 @ 6mph

Will some owners best these times? Absolutely. Will some cars run stronger than others? Of course. Will some be dogs for some unknown reason. You bet. This is why we look at multiple reviews for an average.



This is where you've gone wrong. You're taking marketed horsepower to compare these cars. Let's look at what these cars are actually putting down.

Edmunds Dyno
392: 452hp/443lb-ft Link
ZL1: 497hp/497lb-ft Link

In reality less than 50hp separate them. 392 is a great motor, no two ways about it. The cars are the same weight, the 50hp difference explains the 0.6 sec difference to 60; 0.65 difference in the quarter and 6mph difference in trap speed.



Given the price differential, I certainly hope so. There is no shame in losing to a car that costs $20,000 more. Around a road course, I hope you're right. Dodge has never taken handling seriously in the Challenger. While the Boss 302/1LE and ZL1/GT500 have gone toe-to-toe on the track, Dodge has been noticeably absent. For years, Dodge has had no answer to the high HP offerings from Chevrolet and Ford. Better late than never I suppose.



I don't think people are making fun of SRT8 weight vs ZL1. It's in relation to the GT, both the SRT and SS look overweight.

GT: 3,618lbs
SS: 3,908lbs
SRT: 4,170lbs

If the Hellcat really does weigh 4440lbs, that is 300lbs more than the ZL1 and 500lbs more than the GT500. Yes it's a roomy car but that's a lot of weight to throw around. Did you buy a Challenger because it can accommodate 5 people?

A+ God bless your soul.

[v8]

Originally Posted by 2doorrocket

Reading most of these comments you guys are so dramatic. Lol... It will handle just fine, personally I prefer the feel of my SRT's to the ZL1. While the ZL1 is a beast of a car, and props to GM. Unless you guys want to sit in denial, the interior sucks.

My experience spending some serious track time with the ZL1 and the SRT. The SRT's handle just fine. I'll let you guys know what I think after I get my chance to drive the hellcat on the 23rd.

Please post the results of your test drive. The hellcat has peaked my interest. I'm a Chevy guy at heart but the hellcat is going to be a great street machine. I think that on the closed street a driver will not be able to use the full handling potential of either the GT500, ZL1, or hellcat, however, more acceleration in brief bursts is always welcomed.

[GB73ZL1]

I Just want to say I LOVE my ZL1.

And I want to thank the engineers at GM and Ford/SVT/Shelby and Dodge/Chrysler/Fiat for having huge egos and designing/building these cars for us. Keep up the good work.

ZL1 is my favorite...though. Just sayin'

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Given the price differential, I certainly hope so. There is no shame in losing to a car that costs $20,000 more. Around a road course, I hope you're right. Dodge has never taken handling seriously in the Challenger.

Has Hellcat pricing been announced yet?

Originally Posted by v8

Please post the results of your test drive. The hellcat has peaked my interest. I'm a Chevy guy at heart but the hellcat is going to be a great street machine. I think that on the closed street a driver will not be able to use the full handling potential of either the GT500, ZL1, or hellcat, however, more acceleration in brief bursts is always welcomed.

+1

[rcandiloro]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Not feeling the 4 275 mm tires.

I agree. This is just my humble opinion, but giving that beast 275s doesn't do it justice. It might seem like a small thing, but the 285s on the front and 305s on the back of the ZL1 just add to how badass it is. I read that 275s are the biggest tire that will fit on the Hellcat. Sad, cause it looks like a really cool car. Not a show stopper, but man oh man, put 325s on the back of that sucker and let it rip......

[rcandiloro]

Originally Posted by GB73ZL1

I Just want to say I LOVE my ZL1.

And I want to thank the engineers at GM and Ford/SVT/Shelby and Dodge/Chrysler/Fiat for having huge egos and designing/building these cars for us. Keep up the good work.

ZL1 is my favorite...though. Just sayin'

Me too! I looked long and hard at the GT500, but in the end the ZL1 gave me the chills when I saw it in person. It was just so badass looking. That wasn't the only reason I bought it, I did my homework. I didn't have the same reaction with the Cobra. All awesome cars, but I am loving the ZL1! Well done Chevy!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

I think MEDISIN wins this battle. He delivered.

+1. Good work