Well, It looks like the government won't help GM

[UCF w00t]

The government already loans money to the banks and has for quite some time. The banks rely on this money to survive. Not to mention the additional money they are now getting from the fed through the bailout crap. It would be easy for them to say "the window is closed unless... you actually loan this money to consumers and business." The flip side of that is the banks often can't afford to do it as they're so screwed up they already owe other people money.

[Evotion]

Absolutely my last post on the negative crap.

First of all... CNN and all of the new networks have ratings, just like every other show. Sensationalism sells!! One day it's bad, the next it's good, but in the end it is just more speculation, fueling the economic fire. Part of the reason we are in this mess, is because too many people hear "economic trouble" and stop buying, regardless of whether or not they are directly affected.

Second... as much as I want to see GM prosper, and get my Camaro, I am tired of everyone sitting around waiting for someone to do something. We assume the only way out of this mess is through Federal government bailouts. The entire system is made up of politicians, sitting around waiting. Everyone needs to get involved for this to turn around.

Something as simple as state politicians offering 10% tax credits on new cars, could give people the incentive they need to buy a car. On a $30,000 car that would be $3,000 dollars, and as a small business owner, not owing state taxes for a year would be a great incentive.

I am not trying to solve GM's problems, what I'm trying to say is that the constant panic, induced by the media and other outlets, is causing more strain on the system than there needs to be.

There are no simple answers to the problems that the automakers are facing, but if everyone fuels the fire and sits back waiting for someone to put it out, it's never gonna happen.

[The_Blur]

Allow me to reiterate my previous post. News networks are neither experts on business or corporate policy nor responsible for such policy. What makes you think that CNN's report on this is any more accurate than Edmunds claiming that GM is working on a supercharged Z28?

[bowtiedriver]

Originally Posted by xl1200r

Forcing banks to give loans to undeserving people is exactly where we're in this mess.

except those banks chose to because they are greedy sob's. And then because they made bad business decisions they are in financial trouble, but they get bailed out and rescued so the exec.'s can keep their 3 homes, exotic cars, and their multi-million dollar bonuses.
Meanwhile, all we want is a lousy loan to buy our dream car, but no can do because idiots took advantage of a good thing.

[RCowan]

Originally Posted by bowtiedriver

except those banks chose to because they are greedy sob's.

There was NO risk because they were backed up by the Govt. Money for nothing. Anybody would take that deal.

[storm79]

hmmm what really ticks me off is the government won't help gm with finances, a company that is a huge asset to taxes, jobs, etc. but they will go and bail out a financial company who when finding out the bail out went through went and treated their f*ckin employees to $400,000 in hotel rooms, food, and spa treatments. It's like really how retarted are you?

sorry no offense but this is getting far beyond ridiculous.

[bigralph]

Bank are not lending because they are using the bailout money to buy off there competition.

[HeatherR]

Just recieved this in an email and thought I would pass it on. I have been lurking here and there to stay informed about the new camaro for awhile

Here are some facts from the WEB that don't get the press they deserve - next time you hear negative comments about domestic this may come in handy it also has the sites that the info came from as well.

I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE BAD MOUTHING AMERICAN CARS..GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT...
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.

a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)

8. Which car did the LA Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?

a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen


ANSWERS:

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
www.businessweek.com/a...

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.

a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
www.jdpower.com/autos/...
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
www.edmunds.com/help/a...

8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
www.latimes.com/classi...

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”

Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
www.greencar.com/featu.../

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
www.northamericancarof...

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
www.northamericancarof...

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?

Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.

13.If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.

Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
levelfieldinstitute.or.../

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by HeatherR

Just recieved this in an email and thought I would pass it on. I have been lurking here and there to stay informed about the new camaro for awhile

Here are some facts from the WEB that don't get the press they deserve - next time you hear negative comments about domestic this may come in handy it also has the sites that the info came from as well.

I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE BAD MOUTHING AMERICAN CARS..GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT...
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.

a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)

8. Which car did the LA Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?

a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen


ANSWERS:

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
www.businessweek.com/a...

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.

a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
www.jdpower.com/autos/...
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
www.edmunds.com/help/a...

8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
www.latimes.com/classi...

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”

Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
www.greencar.com/featu.../

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
www.northamericancarof...

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
www.northamericancarof...

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?

Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.

13.If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.

Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
levelfieldinstitute.or.../

[VICTORY RED 1SS]

Damn you're good.

[USAFJeeper]

Bailing out private industry is bad. Do you really want *******to own GM? I am against a bailout for anyone. I pay my bills, I save money, I have excellent credit. Why in the hell are my tax dollars going to bail out anyone.

I have a buddy whose lawn care business is going tits up, perhaps he should apply for a bailout as well. Another one had his wife go back to work till they get over this hump. It is bullshit to bail out private companies that kept making SUVs long after the writing was on the wall. I want a Camaro real bad, but I am not going to be ok with bailouts until my 1500 dollar monthly house note is covered by The Anointed One.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by USAFJeeper

Bailing out private industry is bad. Do you really want ********* to own GM? I am against a bailout for anyone. I pay my bills, I save money, I have excellent credit. Why in the hell are my tax dollars going to bail out anyone.

I have a buddy whose lawn care business is going tits up, perhaps he should apply for a bailout as well. Another one had his wife go back to work till they get over this hump. It is bullshit to bail out private companies that kept making SUVs long after the writing was on the wall. I want a Camaro real bad, but I am not going to be ok with bailouts until my 1500 dollar monthly house note is covered by The Anointed One.

There's a huge difference between bailing out a company that affects up to 3 million people than a company that affects under 100. Let's also keep away from party politics. That's going to lead to a lot of misdirected resentment and hostility in the forums.

[USAFJeeper]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

There's a huge difference between bailing out a company that affects up to 3 million people than a company that affects under 100. Let's also keep away from party politics. That's going to lead to a lot of misdirected resentment and hostility in the forums.

Whats the difference? Both are privately owned companies that affect people beyond their own business. Each has suppliers, advertising costs and so on. Why not bail out Bob the Turf Man too? There are a lot more Bobs out there.

Someone above was beating on ********* for not supporting it. I am conservative I don't support ANY of it.

[Justin]

What pisses me off the most is the politicians as a whole are basically saying "it's their fault." It's really not. People buy imports because of a FALSE sense of quality, and because imports don't have the healthcare expenses, etc of GM because they use what essentially constitutes slave labor, they don't have the costs that GM and the big three do.

And if you want to talk about fault, the entire freakin' economy is in the shitter right now because banks decided to make very, VERY risky investments. That's their fault. GM paying their employees decent wages is certainly nowhere near as stupid as investing in something likely to fail because it has potentially high yield.