2026 Camaro EV pic on MotorTrend mag cover

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by 102SS

The thing they also fail to mention is the "hero runs" are usually one and done.

When the batteries and motors heat up the performance falls off dramatically.

Don't forget the opposite about temperature is also true for EV. When it gets "ICE" cold outside, how far you going to go in the snow? Right now, they don't have that all figured out.

Electricity prices go up, and people start whining. Just wait. Without adding to our current and very poor electrical grid infrastructure, all these new add on cars are going to put a strain on what's already strained, and price WILL GO UP. Mark it on your calendar.

There's going to be a time when we'll look back fondly on history and say remember when our electricity bill was only $200 per month? I think it's going to cost just as much per mile or more than an ICE car. Regardless of subsidies, because someone's paying those (taxpayers) and that has to be factored in.

I simply find it interesting that with all the tax breaks and subsidies, they STILL can't expand the demand of EVs. "We're ramping up production"...so what? Build more to add to a sea of lot lizards that aren't flying off the lots. Bud Light has a better chance of selling in some geographical areas.

Someone with good intentions wanted it to happen, but policy-makers had no idea how to bring it to fruition and have it be organic in demand. So far, that hasn't happened. Technology will catch up one day where it might be feasible, but not today.

And most amazing is the arbitrary dates all this is supposed to happen. By 2035, cars must...blah blah blah. Shut the f up, politicians.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Great! sounds like EVs are at a point they can sell themselves and displace ICE vehicles on their own merits, without subsidies, government incentives, or regulations driving out competing technologies, then.

Far from it, they are still too expensive, the charging network isnt extensive enough and superchargers are pricey to use.

But why hate on it as a concept? No-one is forcing anyone to buy EVs and its undeniable they have some advantages over ICE cars, even if you ignore the environmental aspects mine is costing 30% what an ICE version would in fuel.

But the anti-EV rhetoric still rolls on, in the last couple of posts theres someone claiming EVs arent selling when global EV sales are 18% of market share, the Model Y is the best selling car and EVs are on course to outsell ICEs in Europe by 2027.

Im not claiming they are "The Solution", or everyone should replace their ICE cars but its wrong to claim they arent popular, clean or capable.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

Far from it, they are still too expensive, the charging network isnt extensive enough and superchargers are pricey to use.

But why hate on it as a concept? No-one is forcing anyone to buy EVs and its undeniable they have some advantages over ICE cars, even if you ignore the environmental aspects mine is costing 30% what an ICE version would in fuel.

The regulatory state kind of *IS* forcing us to buy EVs, if we get any form of personal transportation at all, going forward. They are doing it in a phased approach, but it's definitely happening. Enjoy your brief honeymoon with low KWH rates while it lasts. As gas tax revenue drops, GVWs get heavier, and electrical grid infrastructure needs increase, it won't last.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by docwra

...global EV sales are 18% of market share, the Model Y is the best selling car and EVs are on course to outsell ICEs in Europe by 2027.

But...

Originally Posted by docwra

Ill happily admit the main reason I bought it was the (heavily subsidised) cost

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by docwra

Far from it, they are still too expensive, the charging network isnt extensive enough and superchargers are pricey to use.

But why hate on it as a concept? No-one is forcing anyone to buy EVs and its undeniable they have some advantages over ICE cars, even if you ignore the environmental aspects mine is costing 30% what an ICE version would in fuel.

But the anti-EV rhetoric still rolls on, in the last couple of posts theres someone claiming EVs arent selling when global EV sales are 18% of market share, the Model Y is the best selling car and EVs are on course to outsell ICEs in Europe by 2027.

Im not claiming they are "The Solution", or everyone should replace their ICE cars but its wrong to claim they arent popular, clean or capable.

LOL. Right. You won't 'have' to buy an EV, you could always walk, ride a bike or take public transit.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by docwra

I'll happily admit the main reason I bought it was the (heavily subsidized)

Originally Posted by docwra

if you ignore the environmental aspects mine is costing 30% what an ICE version would in fuel.

But the anti-EV rhetoric still rolls on, in the last couple of posts there's someone claiming EVs aren't selling when global EV sales are 18% of market share, the Model Y is the best selling car and EVs are on course to outsell ICEs in Europe by 2027.

I'm not claiming they are "The Solution", or everyone should replace their ICE cars but its wrong to claim they aren't popular, clean or capable.

That top post of yours about admitting why you bought an EV pretty much sums up your following post.

They are popular because of all the gov subsidies, and they are cheaper to drive "Right Now" because all the ICE vehicle drivers are subsidizing the cost. Even the auto manufactures are subsidizing their losses of building EVs by jacking the MSRP on ICE Trucks and SUVs.

If/When EVs become more mainstream, the electric companies will jack the price and they will no longer be any cheaper to charge up then to fill your gas tank.

Look it's no different then say the cable companies. When everyone started to cut the cable TV cord, the cable companies just jacked the price of their internet service. Your internet service costs didn't get jacked up right away, but as more and more people started cutting the cord, then you began to notice price hikes of your internet service. Now with the price hikes of your internet service and the cost of a couple streaming services, you are not saving any money over what your internet and cable used to be through the cable company.

If you can't see that's what's going to happen... Well... I can't explain it to you any differently.

It baffles me why pro EV buyers try to come on a 6th Gen Camaro forum and expect to see Pro EV comments coming from people. Why not just go on an EV forum?? I don't get it...

[docwra]

Originally Posted by jamala00

It baffles me why pro EV buyers try to come on a 6th Gen Camaro forum and expect to see Pro EV comments coming from people. Why not just go on an EV forum?? I don't get it...

Im here because I own a Z28, I comment because these discussions are ridiculously one sided .......... exactly what youd expect from a Camaro forum

You may well be right, all this EV bullshit is just so The Man can take more of your hard earned but try looking at it without the oil tinted glasses on.

Whether you believe me or not the cost of renewable power has reduced considerably over the last ~15 years and it continues to reduce, particularly solar panels for personal use - I know at least 5 guys who pay zero in electricity as they sell their excess back to the grid.
The tech is getting cheaper and more efficient all the time, this cant be said for conventional power generation.

The cost of EVs is also reducing rapidly - the cheapest new EV here costs less than the equivalent VW Golf - and the subsidies given to business buyers are filtering through, a 2016 Model X can be picked for 30% of original list price.

5 years ago Id have probably made the same arguments against EV's that you are.
But I also think Europe is about 5 years further down the EV road than the US, and a lot can change in 5 years particularly when youre talking about environmental technology.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by jamala00

It baffles me why pro EV buyers try to come on a 6th Gen Camaro forum and expect to see Pro EV comments coming from people. Why not just go on an EV forum?? I don't get it...

We need to be saved from misinformation, and do our part to save the planet through strip mining cobalt in central Africa with child labor and buying green energy solar panels fabricated using coal-fire energy sources from China, to spur the imaginary economy of carbon credits.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Capricio

We need to be saved from misinformation, and do our part to save the planet through strip mining cobalt in central Africa with child labor and buying green energy solar panels fabricated using coal-fire energy sources from China, to spur the imaginary economy of carbon credits.

Preach.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

But I also think Europe is about 5 years further down the EV road than the US, and a lot can change in 5 years particularly when youre talking about environmental technology.

...a lot can change as the regulatory state and environmental fearmongering gain momentum, too. People are rightfully wary about the state of EV tech as it sits now, the OEMs are out ahead their skis right now. Market corrections are coming, and people like me are taking a "wait and see" approach. Can you at least appreciate that some people don't want to be forced down a path, feeling like we're losing our ability to choose as consumers? The distances and temperatures at play in the western United States make EVs impractical in many ways.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Capricio

...a lot can change as the regulatory state and environmental fearmongering gain momentum, too. People are rightfully wary about the state of EV tech as it sits now, the OEMs are out ahead their skis right now. Market corrections are coming, and people like me are taking a "wait and see" approach. Can you at least appreciate that some people don't want to be forced down a path, feeling like we're losing our ability to choose as consumers? The distances and temperatures at play in the western United States make EVs impractical in many ways.

An issue with Market Corrections is, in the case of late-stage capitalism, most people are okay with a surface level "appearance" of choice, even when it doesn't really exist. Like how most consumer goods these days are all produced by only a handful of corporations. But they all come with different labels and "appear" to compete with one another, but in the end, all the cash ends up in the purses of the same corporations regardless of which "decision" one makes.


But I'll digress, lest we drift too far from the core topic of the thread at hand.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Capricio

We need to be saved from misinformation, and do our part to save the planet through strip mining cobalt in central Africa with child labor and buying green energy solar panels fabricated using coal-fire energy sources from China, to spur the imaginary economy of carbon credits.

I know right...! All the pro EV and renewable energy folks look at it from one side and never want to talk about the other side. Like, mining the minerals for the batteries, or the non existent used EV market, or the battery recycling, or the issues with recycling solar panels, or the environmental issues with solar farms, or the issue that you can't recycle the huge ass blades on the big wind turbines. All they see is, it's cheaper to charge my car then fill my tank. If I put solar on my roof I can sell electricity back to the electric company.

Originally Posted by docwra

Im here because I own a Z28, I comment because these discussions are ridiculously one sided .......... exactly what youd expect from a Camaro forum

You are 100% correct. The arguments I read from pro EV buyers are ridiculously one sided. All they ever want to talk about are the benefits... Which depending on "your situation" may not be any.

I have a detached garage that only has a 50 Amp service going to it. I only have a 100 Amp service to my house. I'd have to upgrade the service to my house to 200 Amp. I'd have to dig up the line going from the house to the garage to replace the service to the garage. I'd have to upgrade the subpanel in the garage. I'd have to rip out the drywall in the garage so I could run a line to a level 2 charger (which I'd also have to purchase)... How much would that lone cost me? Then I'd need to pay some ridiculous over price MSRP to get an EV when I already have 3 vehicles paid for... What would the number of years be to get a return on my investment to make that make any sense?

If an EV works for you great.... If you love EVs great... Go to an EV forum and discuss them with people who agree with you... But don't expect to come on a muscle car ICE forum and expect to find people who think like you do about EVs. It's not going to happen. I don't know how many EV threads need to get started and end the same way.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by docwra

Im here because I own a Z28, I comment because these discussions are ridiculously one sided .......... exactly what youd expect from a Camaro forum

You are 100% correct. The arguments I read from pro EV buyers are ridiculously one sided. All they ever want to talk about are the benefits... Which depending on "your situation" may not be any.

I have a detached garage that only has a 50 Amp service going to it. I only have a 100 Amp service to my house. I'd have to upgrade the service to my house to 200 Amp. I'd have to dig up the line going from the house to the garage to replace the service to the garage. I'd have to upgrade the subpanel in the garage. I'd have to rip out the drywall in the garage so I could run a line to a level 2 charger (which I'd also have to purchase)... How much would that lone cost me? Then I'd need to pay some ridiculous over price MSRP to get an EV when I already have 3 vehicles paid for... What would the number of years be to get a return on my investment to make that make any sense?

If an EV works for you great.... If you love EVs great... Go to an EV forum and discuss them with people who agree with you... But don't expect to come on a muscle car ICE forum and expect to find people who think like you do about EVs. It's not going to happen. I don't know how many EV threads need to get started and end the same way.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Capricio

...a lot can change as the regulatory state and environmental fearmongering gain momentum, too. People are rightfully wary about the state of EV tech as it sits now, the OEMs are out ahead their skis right now

Full agree, certainly possible that it could go down the road to overregulation, price increases and no other options on offer - the point is we dont know yet.
Experience here is more are being sold as more people come into contact with them and costs are reducing, they are rapidly gaining popularity.
Dismissing EVs out of hand because of "what ifs" seems a bit shortsighted to me.

Market corrections are coming, and people like me are taking a "wait and see" approach. Can you at least appreciate that some people don't want to be forced down a path, feeling like we're losing our ability to choose as consumers? The distances and temperatures at play in the western United States make EVs impractical in many ways.

Again, yep, totally. I waited until I was happy that the tech/infrastructure/costs worked for me before biting the bullet and
Id advise everyone to do the same. EVs arent going to be right for everyone but as they develop they are becoming more realistic for more people - by contrast ICE is not developing, were stuck with what weve got.

Like I said, 5 years ago Id have rejected an EV out of hand, I now own one.
Id also reiterate I reckon the US is about 5 years behind the UK in the EV game, probably due to distances and cheap gas prices as much as anything else. I think we are a long way off (and you guys even further) being forced into EVs.

Would be interesting to come back and have the same discussion in a few years time, by then we will probably be having the same argument about Hydrogen though