gas prices.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

So we build more refineries. ...which creates more jobs...which stimulates the economy. Hmmm....seems like a win/win situation, no?

True, except for the environmentalists... They don't quite see it that way.

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

I am all for more refineries, the problem is, even if they started building them this year it would be 10 or more years before we would see a difference at the pump and the cost to build them would probably drive gas prices higher. Furthermore, companies won't be in a hurry and they'll make all the excuses everyone that supports them seem to make, which will cause delays that only help them- not the consumer. The reason: they have us right where they want us and they will take advantage of us as long as they can.

Not such a win, win now is it?

Awwww come on Kyle, That's a little defeatist. Just cus it may take a while doesn't mean we shouldn't get started. Ethanol isn't right around the corner either, but we should still pursue it.

The only organization that doesn't want refineries is the U.S. government. I'm basing that on the fact that the green movement has successfully scared our gov away from building new ones. The last refinery was built in 1978 I believe. All the oil companies want new refineries so they can get a larger market share. if we can refine more gas then we can increase demand causing OPEC to increase supply with less stockpiles and therefore get more gas on the market at cheaper prices. The current system is bottle-necked. It's kinda like driving an SS or Z28 (whatever your preference) Camaro on a crowded 2 lane road with a 45mph speed limit. It really doesn't matter how many Camaros you cram on that road you're only gonna go the speed limit. We need to build some 8 lane highways (refineries) to get them where they need to go in more volume.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Oh my God, gtahvit, I hate to be this blunt, but saying the gas station owners are gouging is by far the most incorrect statement someone could possibly make concerning gas prices. Most gas stations make a few cents profit per gallon at best. Often they actually lose money selling gas, and just use it as a loss leader to get people into the convenience store. They make their profits on the food, drinks, and auto-services. Gas prices follow crude prices, but usually lag a little bit. Every gas station will try to keep prices down as long as possible, because raising your price first means no one will come to you. They'll hold out until the increasing losses force their hand, then they'll raise their price. Please, please don't insult the people taking losses just so you can get cheap gas. Those kinds of ignorant statements are just plain rude and inconsiderate.

Well, if you had thoroughly read my post you would have seen that I recognized that only 4% of a gallon of gas is profit. The rest is cost and taxes. I don't believe for one second that any gas station is loosing money on gas. You mean to say that they sell thousands of gallons of gasoline a day, but will take a loss on that gas to sell a few sodas and candy bars? Think about how many Cokes and Snickers you'd have to sell to make up even a $.01 loss on thousands of gallons of gas. They don't keep that much in stock let alone sell that many. Sorry, but you didn't think this one through.

Originally Posted by stovt001

Gas stations charging 25 cents more a gallon than others right across the street isn't the same thing as gouging. Its a poor business move, and I honestly don't know why anyone would go to the unless they have it in their heads that they must have that brand in their tank. I would say that's not gouging since there is a clearly cheaper alternative sitting right across the street. I'm saying on a whole its not right to say gas station owners gouge when I actually think they're the ones getting the worst of this whole thing. They have to fill up their own cars with that more expensive gas, they make little to no profit on selling it, and they often have to take a loss for a while waiting for someone else to raise their price to cover higher costs or else they'll lose business. They're in a very tough business situation providing a service that is quite necessary. While I think its incorrect to accuse the big oil companies of gouging, I don't think such accusations really bother them personally. However, for your hard working small business owner, it is personal and it can be offensive. I guess I just have a soft spot for small business people, but I hate to see them accused of something when they're feeling the same pain we are, if not more.

Call it whatever you want, it's wrong, and I say when you jack the price up without a relative increase in cost, you are gouging. But, you are right, don't buy from them and they won't do it as easily the next time.

It appears we disagree in two areas.

One: Station owners take a loss on the gas they sell at the pump to get people in the store.

Two: The definition of gouging.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

I am all for more refineries, the problem is, even if they started building them this year it would be 10 or more years before we would see a difference at the pump and the cost to build them would probably drive gas prices higher. Furthermore, companies won't be in a hurry and they'll make all the excuses everyone that supports them seem to make, which will cause delays that only help them- not the consumer. The reason: they have us right where they want us and they will take advantage of us as long as they can.

Not such a win, win now is it?

Sooo...so would you agree that we do or don't need more refineries? Because if it really would take 10 more years, why put it off any longer to start building them?? And, with advancements in technology, I seriously doubt it's going to take 10 years to build another. If the last one was built in 1978, then yeah......we've come a long way in technology. We've had a lot of time to learn how to build them safer, faster, bigger, and better.

I say, "Eight lane highway, here we come!"

[stovt001]

I've read multiple sources that the profit margin on gas at the pumps is little to negative. It fluctuates though as once again gas and oil prices are linked, but gas lags by a bit. So it will fluctuate from light loss to light profit. I'll try to find the articles that back up my claims. I understand disbelief until I provide proof. That's fair.

The main sticking point I have with gas station gouging is that since the gas station across the street is selling almost the same gas for far less, it is easily your choice to choose the cheaper stuff. I saw the same thing today. I passed 3 different gas stations that were at least 10 cents more expensive than stations right across the street. I wanted to dope slap the people at the more expensive stations. My definition of gouging disqualifies a situation if there is an equivalent, obvious, and easy alternative. I this case, the gas station across the street counts as such so I say its not gouging, just poor choices. If your definition is different, then agree to disagree.

[TAG UR IT]

Good little article that helps to explain gas costs, etc. A little long of a read, but informative.

What determines the hair-pulling figure you see displayed in large electronic or plastic numbers? Why is a gallon of gas, say, $4.11 — not $4.10 or $4.12? Why is the price different across the street?

It all starts with oil.

The biggest factor in the skyrocketing price of gasoline is the historic ascent of crude oil, which has surged from $45 per barrel in 2004 to more than $135 this past week, setting new record highs all the while.

In the first quarter of this year, based on a retail price of gas that now seems like a steal — $3.11 a gallon — crude oil accounted for all but about a dollar, or 70 percent, of the cost, according to the federal government.

The rest is a complex mix of factors, from the cost of turning oil into gas to taxes to marketing costs to, sometimes, nothing more than the competitive whims of your local gas station owner.

Not that understanding the breakdown makes it any less cringe-inducing to fill ’er up.

The open market
First a primer on how gas gets to your tank:


Once oil is pumped from the ground, it can be sold on the spot market, a last-minute trading arena where oil companies and distributors buy and sell to each other, or straight to refiners. After it’s brewed into gasoline, the product can again be sold on the spot market, or directly to wholesalers, who in turn can supply their own stations or sell it to other retailers.


Each step of the way, buyers and sellers negotiate a price until, finally, drivers pay the ultimate tab at the pump.


At the starting point of all this is the price of oil — which, like the oil itself, is nothing if not crude.


The knee-jerk villains are the oil companies, fat with multibillion-dollar profits, frequent targets of populist anger. But wait: The oil companies don’t set the price of oil or the cost of a gallon of gas.


Prices are a function of the open market, the result of futures contracts being traded on the New York Mercantile Exchange, or Nymex, and other exchanges around the world.


Buying the current July crude oil futures contract means you’re buying oil that will be delivered by the end of July. But most investors who trade futures have no intention of ever accepting the underlying oil: Like stock investors who frequently buy and sell their holdings, they’re simply betting that prices will rise or fall.


Of late, on the Nymex, oil futures have been rising.


Why? Blame the falling dollar. Oil is priced in U.S. dollars, and the weaker the dollar gets, the more attractive dollar-denominated oil contracts are to foreign investors — or any investor looking for a safe haven in the turbulent stock market.


The rush of buyers keeps pushing oil futures to a series of new records, and the rest of the energy complex, including gasoline futures, has followed. That pushes up the price of gas that goes into your tank.


“Crude is the driver,” said Jim Ritterbusch, president of energy consultancy Ritterbusch and Associates in Galena, Ill. “As long as it stays up there, gasoline’s not going to be able to decline much at all, even if demand slips. That’s just the way it is.”


There is some evidence Americans are buying less gas as the price marches higher, and common sense suggests they would cut back even more if gas rose to $4.50 or $5 a gallon.


Lower demand should mean lower prices — but it takes time for that to happen, given the enormous scale of refining operations that produce gasoline.


“Once demand begins to slow, that needs to translate into inventories, then you get some price weakening,” Ritterbusch said. “But it takes a while.”


Oil and gasoline prices often move in the same direction, but they aren’t linked directly. In fact, while oil prices have more than doubled in the past year, gasoline is only up about 19% during the same time.


Oil prices often fluctuate with production decisions from the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, which supplies about 40% of the world’s crude, or when conflict in the Middle East or Nigeria threatens supplies.


For example, oil prices rose $2.46 in one day last month amid reports a ship under contract to the Defense Department fired warning shots at two boats in the Persian Gulf that may have been Iranian.


A Navy spokesman later said the origin of the boats was unclear, but the news raised concerns that a conflict between U.S. and Iranian forces could cut oil supplies from the region. That same day, gas prices rose another 2.1 cents to a then-record national average of $3.577 a gallon on other supply concerns.


And the rise has only grown more dramatic. Oil sprinted higher last week, rising more than $4 a barrel on Wednesday alone and past $135 on Thursday.


As for gasoline prices: They’re closely tied to demand from U.S. drivers and how efficiently refineries are operating. Falling production or inventories often send prices skyrocketing.


Those prices can vary greatly depending on the region.


The Gulf Coast is the source of about half the gasoline produced in the United States, and areas farthest from there tend to have higher prices because of the cost of shipping gas via pipeline and tanker truck all over the country.


Some of those places, like California and New York, also have higher local taxes that push the price higher.


Oil companies may not set the price of oil and gasoline, but not everyone is willing to sit back and let them claim to be innocent bystanders.


In particular, for the second time this year, Big Oil’s biggest executives were on Capitol Hill in recent days getting pummeled by many in Congress for their record profits while Americans struggle with record fuel prices.


“Where is the corporate conscience?” Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., asked the top executives of the five largest U.S. oil companies.

Oil companies not to blame?

Soaring gas prices have led to cries for a variety of answers, from Hillary Clinton and John McCain’s suggestion to suspend the federal gas tax this summer to President Bush’s call to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska and some offshore waters that are now off limits to oil development.


Others have suggested a windfall profits tax on oil companies, although some economists say that might actually hurt supply. Oil companies say they’re not to blame for spiking fuel prices, and their earnings, measured against revenue, are in line with other industries.


On top of that, rising oil prices have sharply cut profit margins for refining, and that hits the major oil companies — which both pump oil and refine it for use as gasoline.


A giant like Exxon Mobil can handle the blow. Its refining and marketing profits for the first quarter were down 39% from a year ago, but Exxon still banked a nearly $11 billion profit because of the hefty prices earned on crude it pumped out of the ground.


Smaller refiners aren’t so fortunate. Sunoco Inc.’s refining and supply business lost $123 million in the first quarter, hurt by lower margins. Tesoro Corp. lost $82 million for the same period.


In any case, huge profits at big oil companies like Exxon Mobil and Chevron aren’t because of high prices at the pump. Their massive profits are tied to their exploration and production arms, which are benefiting from record crude prices.


Higher crude costs also have squeezed profits at the refining arms of companies like ConocoPhillips, which don’t produce enough crude themselves to refine at full capacity without buying more oil from other producers.


CEO Jim Mulva said ConocoPhillips, the second-largest U.S. refiner behind Valero Energy Corp., buys about 2 million barrels of crude a day at market prices to refine into gasoline and other products.


“If oil costs us $30 a barrel or $40 a barrel or $120 a barrel, that’s why the cost of gasoline is what it is,” he said. “It’s not because of taxes. It’s not because of ... refining and distribution. It’s because of the cost of oil.”

Federal, state taxes top it off

But it’s not only about the price of oil. Other costs are a factor — though they’ve remained relatively stable.


For example, federal and state taxes added 40 cents to a gallon of gas in the first three months of this year, roughly the same amount as they added four years ago.


California’s 63.9 cents of tax is the nation’s highest, Alaska’s 26.4 cents the lowest. How the money is used varies from state to state, though the federal take helps to build and maintain highways and bridges.


Marketing and distribution costs — the tab for delivering gasoline from refiner to retailer — were 27 cents to start the year, only 6 cents above the cost four years ago.


The cost of refining added 27 cents to a gallon in the first quarter of this year, a nickel less than what it added in 2004, according to the Energy Information Administration.


That refining occurs at sprawling industrial complexes across the U.S., with most of the biggest along the Gulf Coast. Barrels of crude arrive each day by pipeline, ship and barge. The refineries, by heating, treating and blending the raw oil, turn out products like diesel and lubricating oil.


And, of course, gasoline.

Station owners face hardships

What happens when that gasoline makes its way to your neighborhood gas station?


Major oil companies own fewer than 5% of gas stations. Most are owned by small retailers — and many of them say they’re struggling these days to turn a profit on gas. That’s because wholesale gasoline prices have risen sharply in recent months — again, blame it on crude — but station owners have been unable to raise pump prices fast enough to keep pace.


And you can’t keep jacking up the price when drivers are buying less.


Gas station owners face a balancing act: They must try to maintain a price that allows them to afford the next shipment of gasoline but not give the competition an edge.


Stations pay tens of thousands of dollars for each gas shipment before they see a cent in the register. Eventually, many make only a few cents on a gallon of gasoline, a margin that can disappear altogether when credit card fees are added in.


Thank goodness for beef jerky and sodas.


Most gasoline retailers long ago got past any illusion they can make money by selling gas. They rely on gas sales to drive traffic to their shops, where they hope auto repairs or food and drink sales will help them turn a profit.


“You’re always out there competing with the guy next door — literally with the guy across the street — and worried too about how you’re going to pay for your next supply,” said Rayola Dougher, a senior economic adviser at the American Petroleum Institute, the oil industry’s trade association.


In the Philadelphia suburb of Havertown, Pa., early last week, Sunoco station operator Steve Kehler received a load of gasoline — 9,000 gallons — which, at a wholesale price of $3.729 a gallon, cost him 4 cents more than the previous load.


That left him in a sticky situation: Should he raise prices right away to recoup some of his higher gasoline expenses, or should he hold off for a couple of days in hopes his competitors will also have to raise their prices?


“I’m surrounded by $3.89’s, and I’m already at $3.91,” said Kehler, referring to his prices and those of some nearby competitors. “I’m going to play a little waiting game right now.”


The $33,600 Kehler must pay for his overnight gasoline delivery won’t be debited from his bank account for a few days. That gives him a little breathing room, time to hold prices steady. Hiking prices too quickly will hurt sales.


“I’ll probably change it tomorrow night, at closing,” Kehler said. “I’ll go up 4 cents.”


That will put Kehler at a gross margin of about 20 cents a gallon. After paying credit card fees, labor and rent, Kehler will be lucky to break even on his gasoline sales.


But many times, he loses money selling gas. Kehler, like most other service station operators, relies entirely upon his car repair business for income.


Of course, the plight of retailers is little consolation for drivers.


Mayra Perez said she works two fast-food jobs to help support her family, and gasoline is becoming harder to afford. She said perhaps the government should step in to help ease the burden, possibly by placing price limits on gasoline.


She was filling the tank of her compact car in Miami this past week to the tune of $3.89 per gallon for regular gas.


“This is horrible,” she said. “On the weekend, my husband and I use only one car to save on gas.


“But then there’s the cost of food, milk, eggs, the rent.”

[unkbd]

I've read multiple sources that the profit margin on gas at the pumps is little to negative
Sorry to chime in late, but if this is true where are the profits that the oil companies have been claiming coming from? Quarterly profits are at record highs (30 to 40 Billion). I can understand the station owners not making much on a per gallon basis, but the oil company profits are outrageous.

[JaysonAych]

Originally Posted by Numero_uno

Well one of the deciding factors in me deciding on the V6 rather than the V8 has been gas prices. While I'm not the Camaro enthusiast that many of the members here are, I am still a huge Camaro fan and believe in keeping to the whole American Muscle idealogy. I just think that a big hunkin' V8 could bankrupt me at the pump and insurance office.

In my personal situation, I'm not too concerned about the price of gas in the V8 compared to the V6. I plan to keep my current car for a daily driver and the Camaro for pleasure. If I did get the V8, it wouldn't really impact me too much on fuel prices.

But you mentioned the insurance costs, and that's where my concerns lie. The insurance costs on a V8 are likely going to be ridiculous, and the car itself is going be pricier too. The additional fuel costs will be a drop in the bucket compared to those factors. The insurance more than the fuel will probably have me getting the V6.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I've read multiple sources that the profit margin on gas at the pumps is little to negative. It fluctuates though as once again gas and oil prices are linked, but gas lags by a bit. So it will fluctuate from light loss to light profit. I'll try to find the articles that back up my claims. I understand disbelief until I provide proof. That's fair.

The main sticking point I have with gas station gouging is that since the gas station across the street is selling almost the same gas for far less, it is easily your choice to choose the cheaper stuff. I saw the same thing today. I passed 3 different gas stations that were at least 10 cents more expensive than stations right across the street. I wanted to dope slap the people at the more expensive stations. My definition of gouging disqualifies a situation if there is an equivalent, obvious, and easy alternative. I this case, the gas station across the street counts as such so I say its not gouging, just poor choices. If your definition is different, then agree to disagree.

Instead of agreeing to disagree.....I will agree to PARTIALLY agree.
Personally, I do not really blame most gas stations for the gouging, at least not enuff to create the record profits, I believe that is coming from the source...the oil producers- who pump it from earth, or do not, if they feel like tightening supply. Anyone notice the POTUS overseas recently? Reportedly asking OPEC to boost production, to which they responded....hmmff. ( not a direct quote)
My '25 cent more' station may not be 'gouging' -just exhibiting poor judgement---but not as poor as the jokers paying for it.

I guess the gouging term is debateable (obviously) .... What is it called when every summer gas prices rise. I know, supply/demand, I know I do not use that much more gas in the summer, it is not like everyone is going on a 1,000 mile trip every week or even every month. I think ( no research ) it is just an excuse to raise prices. Then more oil is used to provide heat in the winter, another reason to raise prices... Well now we do not have to worry about that any more, everyone just says prices are gonna go up.....too bad... deal with it. Some will say it is due to increased demand, I know I use less gas now than before Katrina ($2.00) I ride the moto (60 mpg) to work whenever possible. So it is now China etc causing the increased demand, I do not doubt -increased demand- I do doubt that worldwide demand doubled in 2 years. Again, gas was $2.00 (in Texas) AFTER it peaked (due to Katrina).

I do think we should be drilling in Alaska etc. Alaska is larger than Texas, California, Nevada and 13 Northeastern states all put together and has the population of Fort Worth TX. There is plenty of room to drill, I do not care if 'we' scare a few polar bears, maybe Exxon can use some of their $$$bill$$$ to provide some polar bear chow....

As stovt001 said, nothing wrong with 'them' making profits;
I say it is what they do with the profit that WE should judge them by...Invest in refineries, I buy your gas, invest in $billion $salaries/bonuses for execs....... I will attempt to find gas elsewhere.

The stations I was referring to; 25 cents+, now that gas is 4.09 here, they are only .04 cents more.......? after charging 20-25 more since last summer?? hmm their costs went up less than everyone else??? the chain is Chevron, and it is most of the stations near Reno, Carson City area.
I used to really like Chevron--red white and blue-- and most military (enlisted) have chevrons or are working toward them.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I've read multiple sources that the profit margin on gas at the pumps is little to negative. It fluctuates though as once again gas and oil prices are linked, but gas lags by a bit. So it will fluctuate from light loss to light profit. I'll try to find the articles that back up my claims. I understand disbelief until I provide proof. That's fair.

The main sticking point I have with gas station gouging is that since the gas station across the street is selling almost the same gas for far less, it is easily your choice to choose the cheaper stuff. I saw the same thing today. I passed 3 different gas stations that were at least 10 cents more expensive than stations right across the street. I wanted to dope slap the people at the more expensive stations. My definition of gouging disqualifies a situation if there is an equivalent, obvious, and easy alternative. I this case, the gas station across the street counts as such so I say its not gouging, just poor choices. If your definition is different, then agree to disagree.

Well said!

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

True, except for the environmentalists... They don't quite see it that way.



Awwww come on Kyle, That's a little defeatist. Just cus it may take a while doesn't mean we shouldn't get started. Ethanol isn't right around the corner either, but we should still pursue it.

The only organization that doesn't want refineries is the U.S. government. I'm basing that on the fact that the green movement has successfully scared our gov away from building new ones. The last refinery was built in 1978 I believe. All the oil companies want new refineries so they can get a larger market share. if we can refine more gas then we can increase demand causing OPEC to increase supply with less stockpiles and therefore get more gas on the market at cheaper prices. The current system is bottle-necked. It's kinda like driving an SS or Z28 (whatever your preference) Camaro on a crowded 2 lane road with a 45mph speed limit. It really doesn't matter how many Camaros you cram on that road you're only gonna go the speed limit. We need to build some 8 lane highways (refineries) to get them where they need to go in more volume.

True, true the whole refinery thing seems so out of reach now though for the reasons you have stated, not to mention these hard times (gas prices/dollar value/etc) had to come when I am in college and money is tight (even for fulltime working adults as well). Not to mention i just drove 70 miles this morning to get a study guide that my TA didn't print off, and isn't around to do so before the test tomorrow.

You do know, however, that if you had a 2 lane road with all camaros...they might be going a little faster...I mean, speed limits are only suggestions right?

[GSX]

You know after doing some math. The most that one can safe for using a car that using regular gas is around $2-3 at most during a fill up. Which compared with current gas prices is NOTHING.

And another thing. Maybe the state and federal Governments could cut the fuel tax in half.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by crazz28

I would gladly take the prices in the states. Up here in Canada gas is ~$5/gallon, plus our camaros will be another $5k+ at least, even with a near par dollar. And we're the ones building the car and making the gas!!!!(ok, not all of it, but we do have a bunch of oil up here) Then there's the guys in Europe who are paying double what we are almost.
I know that for myself the fun-factor of a V8 outweighs the fuel mileage/prices by a long shot.

I agree totally

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by chadrcr

Instead of agreeing to disagree.....I will agree to PARTIALLY agree.
Personally, I do not really blame most gas stations for the gouging, at least not enuff to create the record profits, I believe that is coming from the source...the oil producers- who pump it from earth, or do not, if they feel like tightening supply. Anyone notice the POTUS overseas recently? Reportedly asking OPEC to boost production, to which they responded....hmmff. ( not a direct quote)
My '25 cent more' station may not be 'gouging' -just exhibiting poor judgement---but not as poor as the jokers paying for it.

I guess the gouging term is debateable (obviously) .... What is it called when every summer gas prices rise. I know, supply/demand, I know I do not use that much more gas in the summer, it is not like everyone is going on a 1,000 mile trip every week or even every month. I think ( no research ) it is just an excuse to raise prices. Then more oil is used to provide heat in the winter, another reason to raise prices... Well now we do not have to worry about that any more, everyone just says prices are gonna go up.....too bad... deal with it. Some will say it is due to increased demand, I know I use less gas now than before Katrina ($2.00) I ride the moto (60 mpg) to work whenever possible. So it is now China etc causing the increased demand, I do not doubt -increased demand- I do doubt that worldwide demand doubled in 2 years. Again, gas was $2.00 (in Texas) AFTER it peaked (due to Katrina).

I do think we should be drilling in Alaska etc. Alaska is larger than Texas, California, Nevada and 13 Northeastern states all put together and has the population of Fort Worth TX. There is plenty of room to drill, I do not care if 'we' scare a few polar bears, maybe Exxon can use some of their $$$bill$$$ to provide some polar bear chow....

As stovt001 said, nothing wrong with 'them' making profits;
I say it is what they do with the profit that WE should judge them by...Invest in refineries, I buy your gas, invest in $billion $salaries/bonuses for execs....... I will attempt to find gas elsewhere.

The stations I was referring to; 25 cents+, now that gas is 4.09 here, they are only .04 cents more.......? after charging 20-25 more since last summer?? hmm their costs went up less than everyone else??? the chain is Chevron, and it is most of the stations near Reno, Carson City area.
I used to really like Chevron--red white and blue-- and most military (enlisted) have chevrons or are working toward them.

We should be developing new oil and gas reserves in the states and offshore. If we were to come out with a policy of aggresivley looking for energy while at the same time working toward future energy resources I think we would see the price of energy drop just on that news. As far as refineries, it is the federal goverment that is making it hard for the oil companies to build or modify refineries, just like they are keeping us from exploring for new oil and gas. We have a bunch of pinheads in congress and the outlook is dim.
This being said I just could not be happy without my Camaro V8, it would just not be the same. Also, this might be one of tha last V8 muscle cars ever built and I hope to say that I own one.

[Nickdago]

Originally Posted by unkbd

I've read multiple sources that the profit margin on gas at the pumps is little to negative
Sorry to chime in late, but if this is true where are the profits that the oil companies have been claiming coming from? Quarterly profits are at record highs (30 to 40 Billion). I can understand the station owners not making much on a per gallon basis, but the oil company profits are outrageous.

Oil company profits are based on oil sales and their net is around 10% which is far from gouging. The difference is that 10% of billions and billions is billions, get it. Big oil only controls about 6% to 9% of all of the worlds oil, know who really is controlling this mess. OPEC, Venezuela, Russia, Mexico, Canada and now Brazil. Why are all these other countries out there looking for energy while we bury our heads in the sand?

We need gas for our Camaro SS and we need it now!