why arent there beautiful exotic LOOKING cars in the 20k range??

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

at what speeds are you talking about? ferrari type speeds or 160hp 4 cylinder speeds? real questions not fighting.

Real speeds. All those air dams are designed to capture a ridiculous amount of air and use it for either cooling or induction. A 4 banger would never need even a fraction of what the body is designed to deal with...so you'd end up with a bunch of closed-off parachutes designed into the body panels.

Besides be horrible for aerodynamics (and thus fuel economy), the panels would experience a lot of stress at even highway speeds if the frame wasn't designed to properly channel it.

You do all these things to compensate just to make it work...and you no longer have an affordable car.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by stieger

Also, the "Miata" crowd is a TINY demographic. Compare Miata sale numbers to those of the Prius. It's maybe a quarter of Prius sales. Cars are built AND sold to specific demographics, the fancier and more exotic a car is the smaller the potential sales demographic is.

Miata sales last month were 306 units.

306. And that's a 6% increase over last January's sales.

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Miata sales last month were 306 units.

306. And that's a 6% increase over last January's sales.

Thank you - I honestly didn't care enough to look it up.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by derklug

It wouldn't be that hard to build a 20k car that looks like a Ferrari, but sales would be horrible. The truth is, if you had to live with a supercar for everyday driving, you would soon learn to hate the car. No trunk room, no interior room, harsh suspension, PITA to get in and out, etc., etc., etc. Now picture this with only mediocre performance.

That makes sense. But what about the S2000 or Miata crowd, why cant they design a car that looks badass for those guys? or is there no money in that segment (does that segment even still exist? LOL)

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Again, look at what the best selling passenger car in America is.

The idea is to build a car that will appeal to a wide range of consumers. A super polarizing car that appeals only to a certain demographic is not going to bring in much profit.

ok, so affordable care look ugly because they appeal to a large demographic and not everyone wants to feel like theyre sitting on the floor in a buzzy car. So the only way to make affordable cars is through mass producing/high volume then?

Originally Posted by stieger

Also, the "Miata" crowd is a TINY demographic. Compare Miata sale numbers to those of the Prius. It's maybe a quarter of Prius sales. Cars are built AND sold to specific demographics, the fancier and more exotic a car is the smaller the potential sales demographic is.

ok but who says this hypothetical car has to move Prius-type number of units?? If it moved Miata type numbers you think its not possible at all?

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Real speeds. All those air dams are designed to capture a ridiculous amount of air and use it for either cooling or induction. A 4 banger would never need even a fraction of what the body is designed to deal with...so you'd end up with a bunch of closed-off parachutes designed into the body panels.

Besides be horrible for aerodynamics (and thus fuel economy), the panels would experience a lot of stress at even highway speeds if the frame wasn't designed to properly channel it.

You do all these things to compensate just to make it work...and you no longer have an affordable car.

your wording sounds like the car has 15 different air dams. aside from the front bumper i only see two on each side. And would they REALLY experience THAT much stress with some light enginuity?? i seen body shops produce similar things at affordable prices and those guys arent even half as talented as the engineers big auto makers have. but if the air dams are really the source of major price increases i guess ill just have to live with that answer.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Miata sales last month were 306 units.

306. And that's a 6% increase over last January's sales.

LOL wow. So theres no demographic that likes small affordable "sporty" cars anymore??haha

[DGthe3]

I don't think the problem is cost (at least not explicitly), but practicality. From a manufacturing standpoint, if the body has stamped steel panels of a normal depth, it won't matter too much how the car is shaped, it should work out to about the same cost. It might be a little more expensive, but not substantially worse.

To make a FWD compact look like a mid-engined exotic you will right away end up losing 2 doors and your back seats. That cuts out a massive portion of the potential buyers market. You'd be lucky to sell 15k units a year, even if it came in at 20 grand. So since the volume would be incredibly low, the price would have to go up in order to make up the investment made into the car. Which in turn lowers the projected volume ...

Unless it piggy-backs on a more conventional car, sharing a platform with something sold in a much higher volume. However, if you do that you end up working around what are known as 'hard points'. These dictate where things like the doors, windshield, and roof need to be. Because of this, any attempt at making an exotic body on a conventional car would look about as awkward as the Aztek did when they used a minivan platform for what was supposed to be a sporty looking crossover (thought the term 'crossover' hadn't been invented then).

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

your wording sounds like the car has 15 different air dams. aside from the front bumper i only see two on each side. And would they REALLY experience THAT much stress with some light enginuity?? i seen body shops produce similar things at affordable prices and those guys arent even half as talented as the engineers big auto makers have. but if the air dams are really the source of major price increases i guess ill just have to live with that answer.

Cars are a result of their intent, target, and environment.

Once you change one thing, it effects ten others. When talking about making it look exotic...there are a LOT of factors (expensive ones) that make a car...well, exotic! The looks hide the true complexity - something even though I know is there...I can't begin to explain, fully!



You're OP had an intriguing idea. It would seem that there's more to it than just stamping out some cool looking body pieces, though...

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I don't think the problem is cost (at least not explicitly), but practicality. From a manufacturing standpoint, if the body has stamped steel panels of a normal depth, it won't matter too much how the car is shaped, it should work out to about the same cost. It might be a little more expensive, but not substantially worse.

To make a FWD compact look like a mid-engined exotic you will right away end up losing 2 doors and your back seats. That cuts out a massive portion of the potential buyers market. You'd be lucky to sell 15k units a year, even if it came in at 20 grand. So since the volume would be incredibly low, the price would have to go up in order to make up the investment made into the car. Which in turn lowers the projected volume ...

Unless it piggy-backs on a more conventional car, sharing a platform with something sold in a much higher volume. However, if you do that you end up working around what are known as 'hard points'. These dictate where things like the doors, windshield, and roof need to be. Because of this, any attempt at making an exotic body on a conventional car would look about as awkward as the Aztek did when they used a minivan platform for what was supposed to be a sporty looking crossover (thought the term 'crossover' hadn't been invented then).

i see. thanks for the answer, i figured as much but wanted to see if there were any other reasons. Its funny how so many people dream of exotic cars but even if they were affordable, not enough people would actually buy them to even make that possible. Thanks!

[FenwickHockey65]

Again...



This is probably what the OP would like to see. But even this will have problems if GM decides to go ahead with it. Particularly the rear.

[TOMS1SS]

You can have a base Camaro, Mustang, Challenger or even a Genesis for around 25k tops. Just be willing to be paying a couple grand extra for the those looks on your DD.

[hightower]

Originally Posted by stieger

because then they wouldn't be affordable. Simple as that.

/endthread

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by hightower

/endthread

that answer wasnt detailed enough though and was incredibly vague. not helpful at all actually.

[FenwickHockey65]

By the way, a quick Photoshop MonaroSS at GMI cooked up using the Code130R Concept...



...

[liquidsmoke]

The answer to this question is simple.

Looks are a premium, allways has been allways will be.
Everybody knows, if something looks better you can instantly charge more for it, no matter what it is.
Cheap cars look cheap, because the people who make them, make them look cheap on purpose.
I seriously doubt it's more expensive to make a cars shape more appealing, and this is mostly what we are talking about. Not fancy materials like carbon fiber that are expensive because of the complicated process to make it. There is nothing about an exotic cars shape that is specificly more expensive to do than another shape. Maybe slightly more cost for some things, but nothing anywhere close to justifying the cost of such vehicles.

If that truely were the case, the camaro should be a lot more expensive.
On the outside, the camaro is just as unique looking as any other high end exotic car.
Does anyone really believe that the designers of cheap cars really tried to make it looks as good as they could?
What motivations do they have to make a cheap car look any better than a non cheap car?