Don't know if I can buy a government car? - Page 4

MrIcky · 04-28-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theholycow

The topic is definitely political, but it was clean, non-partisan, and logical. That's the difference between what it was and what you're afraid it will be -- nasty, partisan, and overdramatic. I agree, let's keep it pleasant.

Yup I agree. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to talk about the state of GM without some degree of politics right now. As long as people are being fair and intellectually honest, we can keep this above board.

*radz28* · 04-28-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIcky

Yup I agree. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to talk about the state of GM without some degree of politics right now. As long as people are being fair and intellectually honest, we can keep this above board.

I hate talking in vagaries, but this is not a forum for politics. Unfortunately, it seems to me there is too much politically that can affect Camaro not to say something. For the sake of no one being offended, just keep the replies as I've asked and we might be able to keep this thread alive

ArcAngel · 04-28-2009, 12:48 PM

this is an excellent discussion and the manner in which it is being discussed is great!

MrIcky · 04-28-2009, 01:14 PM

It's sort of like discussing the rain without mentioning water

.

I know it would never happen this way, but a crazy dream of mine is:

The portion of stock the Gov't buys from GM is sub'd out according to the amount you paid in taxes. Then it really WOULD be like the stock was being bought with our money.

ArcAngel · 04-28-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIcky

It's sort of like discussing the rain without mentioning water

.

I know it would never happen this way, but a crazy dream of mine is:

The portion of stock the Gov't buys from GM is sub'd out according to the amount you paid in taxes. Then it really WOULD be like the stock was being bought with our money.

well thought out but never going to happen then the Govt looses there control

Morepwr · 04-28-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz282003

I'm hoping there's something we all can learn in this thread. Hopefully things can remain civil and constructive

+1

Captain Awesome · 04-28-2009, 04:02 PM

Is there anything being spoken about by anyone regarding how/if GM is going to be able to pull out of the government influence? Will they be able to buy back their own stock from the gov't? Will the gov't start trading the stock on their own?

Also... anyone think there's any chance that the gov't will use their media connections and current popularity to put a positive spin on GM and slough off years of biased reviews and exaggerated negativity by the general public?

If a few key people were to go on TV and show how great GM's lineup is getting, perhaps there will be a groundswell of favorable public opinion and revive GM in a big way. The gov't could then make a killing selling the stock on the open market...

*radz28* · 04-28-2009, 04:12 PM

I'd hope the government would allow GM to repay the loans as soon as they have the $$$ to do so. It's my understanding there were some banks that weren't allowed to repay loans they didn't want or ask for. That's just what I heard though - I have nothing to back those claims up with. I'm sure there are lots more people who actually know/understand what's going on. I just hope GM won't have to be under government control long (if they are indeed under their control)...

UCF w00t · 04-28-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Is there anything being spoken about by anyone regarding how/if GM is going to be able to pull out of the government influence? Will they be able to buy back their own stock from the gov't? Will the gov't start trading the stock on their own?

This is all extremely uncharted territory. The government cannot legally compete with private enterprise. For example, with Amtrak, they've just been giving them the money. So I wouldn't be too surprised to see a lawsuit from F, TM, HMC, etc if this deal gets approved (although I'm not sure if TM and HMC would be allowed to sue the US federal government). Almost certainly Ford would though. This quote does scare me a bit...

"As a result of its ownership of GM common stock, the U.S. Treasury will be able to elect all of our directors and to control the vote on substantially all matters brought for a stockholder vote," GM said in a statement.

So yea, all shareholder votes would be dominated by the fed. Ugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Also... anyone think there's any chance that the gov't will use their media connections and current popularity to put a positive spin on GM and slough off years of biased reviews and exaggerated negativity by the general public?

If a few key people were to go on TV and show how great GM's lineup is getting, perhaps there will be a groundswell of favorable public opinion and revive GM in a big way. The gov't could then make a killing selling the stock on the open market...

LOL. What do you think, the mainstream media is equivalent to Pravda for the democrats? Oh wait.... it is...

Not really but still. Hah. I doubt the feds could get away with that. Would be funny if they tried something like that though.

*DGthe3* · 04-28-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIcky

It's sort of like discussing the rain without mentioning water

We don't enjoy forcing politics out of discussions ... but things would be an awful mess otherwise.

The way that I think about whats allowable and what isn't is that talking about what is happening is perfectly fine. Tossing in opinions regarding political views is not needed. For example saying "those damm socialists in the white house ... " is bad. "The Democrats in the white house ... " is better. "The Obama administration ... " is preferred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Is there anything being spoken about by anyone regarding how/if GM is going to be able to pull out of the government influence? Will they be able to buy back their own stock from the gov't? Will the gov't start trading the stock on their own?

My guess would be that if it happened, GM would gradually buy back the stock as part of a repayment plan.

Captain Awesome · 04-28-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

We don't enjoy forcing politics out of discussions ... but things would be an awful mess otherwise.

The way that I think about whats allowable and what isn't is that talking about what is happening is perfectly fine. Tossing in opinions regarding political views is not needed. For example saying "those damm socialists in the white house ... " is bad. "The Democrats in the white house ... " is better. "The Obama administration ... " is preferred.

My guess would be that if it happened, GM would gradually buy back the stock as part of a repayment plan.

But will the 'administration' allow them to pay back the loans?

AZCamaroFan · 04-28-2009, 09:26 PM

I think it's horrible. Isn't there some Howard Hughes type billionaire somewhere with a brain , that can swoop in and take control of GM and run it right??

*DGthe3* · 04-28-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

But will the 'administration' allow them to pay back the loans?

I believe thats the purpose of a loan, otherwise its just a freebie.

UCF w00t · 04-28-2009, 10:07 PM

Well if the plan is accepted, it won't be a loan at all anymore. The loans will be converted into common stock. The government will then have to sell it's stock in order to recapture the investment.

04-28-2009, 12:48 PM	#45
ArcAngel Drives: 07 Black Cobalt SS/SC Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manalapan-NJ Posts: 2,872	this is an excellent discussion and the manner in which it is being discussed is great! __________________ Through HIM you believe in GOD, who raised HIM from the dead and Glorified him..

04-28-2009, 04:12 PM	#50
radz28 Petro-sexual Drives: Ultra-Grin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Crazy Coast Posts: 15,788 View My Garage	I'd hope the government would allow GM to repay the loans as soon as they have the $$$ to do so. It's my understanding there were some banks that weren't allowed to repay loans they didn't want or ask for. That's just what I heard though - I have nothing to back those claims up with. I'm sure there are lots more people who actually know/understand what's going on. I just hope GM won't have to be under government control long (if they are indeed under their control)... __________________ '20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs

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04-28-2009, 01:14 PM	#46
MrIcky Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Boise Posts: 1,536	It's sort of like discussing the rain without mentioning water . I know it would never happen this way, but a crazy dream of mine is: The portion of stock the Gov't buys from GM is sub'd out according to the amount you paid in taxes. Then it really WOULD be like the stock was being bought with our money.

04-28-2009, 04:02 PM	#49
Captain Awesome Account Suspended Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New York Posts: 3,746	Is there anything being spoken about by anyone regarding how/if GM is going to be able to pull out of the government influence? Will they be able to buy back their own stock from the gov't? Will the gov't start trading the stock on their own? Also... anyone think there's any chance that the gov't will use their media connections and current popularity to put a positive spin on GM and slough off years of biased reviews and exaggerated negativity by the general public? If a few key people were to go on TV and show how great GM's lineup is getting, perhaps there will be a groundswell of favorable public opinion and revive GM in a big way. The gov't could then make a killing selling the stock on the open market...

04-28-2009, 09:26 PM	#54
AZCamaroFan Camaro6 2016-2018 Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phoenix Posts: 18,468	I think it's horrible. Isn't there some Howard Hughes type billionaire somewhere with a brain , that can swoop in and take control of GM and run it right??

04-28-2009, 10:07 PM	#56
UCF w00t Geek Drives: IOM 2010 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Orlando Posts: 4,451	Well if the plan is accepted, it won't be a loan at all anymore. The loans will be converted into common stock. The government will then have to sell it's stock in order to recapture the investment.