GT500 Nurburgring time?

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by garcmol

Not at all. I was afraid someone would think that with my comment. And I definately don't want to stir the IRS vs SRA pot.

Oops...I'm just a cynic ha ha, and apparently I was protecting my sarcasm on to you.

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by tooslow

For engineers, no doubt, but not really for the vast majority of people who are actually forking over ther hard-earned $$ to buy a particular car. Do a poll and see where "Ring time" falls into the top 5 factors American's consider before buying a performance car. And I say American because, by far, they are the folks buying Camaros and Mustangs.

You do know that there are Europeans that go through the process of importing a car from the States, and driving it over here, no? As far as I'm aware the Cmaaro was only introduced here a few months ago, and isn't available for delivery yet... The Mustang has been around for some years, and can be seen a bit more frequent already.

To me, the fact that the SS did a pretty decent time on the Ring was one of the deciding factors. I'll tell you why: you can drive the 'Ring on as much games as you want, as long as you haven't driven the real thing, you'll never understand the magic/beauty/challenge from it, and seeing a 'Ring time, as irrelevant it may be to some people, there is a degree as to how good the car handles that is revealed with it.

The fact that most manufacturers are having their development centers there now is simply because they have so much different variables there that they will find nowhere in one place. Where other than on the Ring do you find off/on camber corners, downhill/uphill, grippy/slippery tarmac, decompressing/compressing corners, and varying weather conditioins, all in one place? I perfectly understand why any manufacturer goes there... It's just like the Stelvio pass many maufacturers use to test the braking, but in a bit more "controlled" environment. And with controlled I mean the possibility to go "flat out", unlike on the public roads of mountain passes like the Stelvio I just mentioned.

True, not many of "us" mere mortals will have the change to replicate the 'Ring time, because you simply for one can not drive the full length of the track on a public day: you have to get in halfway the Dottinger Höhe (the almost 3 mile long straight), so you lose the fastest part of the track to drive the car flat out. And the fact that there are other vehicles (bikes, buses, name it, it's there without a doubt) driving around, you'll struggle in getting a "free" lap (unless you go on a snowy Tuesday somewhere half of December, like me LOL).

[a_Username]

-4.31

[ParisTNDude]

I think Ford either hasn't run a great time or they are never going to release the results to the public. Had they run an unofficial great lap time, "leaking" it to Mustang faithfuls would do tons of great PR for them. Since that hasn't happened, I'm thinking their times must stink! I watched the video of the prototype GT500 running the ring and there was an awful lot of tire squall...much more than the ZL1 which was considerable. I don't think the GT500 can beat the Camaro at this point...maybe later. Don't forget, there were many Camaro owners looking for an indication that the GT500 beats the ZL1 easily before making a choice between the two. As many Camaro owners and future buyers that spend a lot of time on this forum, the news that a GT500 was faster, could sway some sales toward Ford and away from the ZL1. It's a very competitive market.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by PeeBee

You do know that there are Europeans that go through the process of importing a car from the States, and driving it over here, no? As far as I'm aware the Cmaaro was only introduced here a few months ago, and isn't available for delivery yet... The Mustang has been around for some years, and can be seen a bit more frequent already.

To me, the fact that the SS did a pretty decent time on the Ring was one of the deciding factors. I'll tell you why: you can drive the 'Ring on as much games as you want, as long as you haven't driven the real thing, you'll never understand the magic/beauty/challenge from it, and seeing a 'Ring time, as irrelevant it may be to some people, there is a degree as to how good the car handles that is revealed with it.

The fact that most manufacturers are having their development centers there now is simply because they have so much different variables there that they will find nowhere in one place. Where other than on the Ring do you find off/on camber corners, downhill/uphill, grippy/slippery tarmac, decompressing/compressing corners, and varying weather conditioins, all in one place? I perfectly understand why any manufacturer goes there... It's just like the Stelvio pass many maufacturers use to test the braking, but in a bit more "controlled" environment. And with controlled I mean the possibility to go "flat out", unlike on the public roads of mountain passes like the Stelvio I just mentioned.

True, not many of "us" mere mortals will have the change to replicate the 'Ring time, because you simply for one can not drive the full length of the track on a public day: you have to get in halfway the Dottinger Höhe (the almost 3 mile long straight), so you lose the fastest part of the track to drive the car flat out. And the fact that there are other vehicles (bikes, buses, name it, it's there without a doubt) driving around, you'll struggle in getting a "free" lap (unless you go on a snowy Tuesday somewhere half of December, like me LOL).

I love it...here's a man who knows the "ring". I drove about 18-20 laps at different times and it IS amazing. Trust me, the average American driver, regardless of what he drives, can easily be passed by a race prepared 4 cylinder Fiat UNO, all those who have had that happen, raise their hands. My time in a heavily modded C5 Vette was 10:10 minutes....airborn twice during each lap....lol!

[ffrcobra_65]

Here we go with the ring time again. Is it really that important to a US car buyer, especially the buyers of $60k cars? I don't think so. Do you really base your car purchase on a ring time? You can have the fastest ring time but if your A$$ is getting handed to you in "real world" 1/4 mile and road course racing, your ring time don't mean $hit. I love the ZL1 but I won't get butthurt when the GT500 spanks it....and it will.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Here we go with the ring time again. Is it really that important to a US car buyer, especially the buyers of $60k cars? I don't think so. Do you really base your car purchase on a ring time? You can have the fastest ring time but if your A$$ is getting handed to you in "real world" 1/4 mile and road course racing, your ring time don't mean $hit. I love the ZL1 but I won't get butthurt when the GT500 spanks it....and it will.

I don't see anything that would give the GT500 a substantial advantage over the ZL1. The Nurburgring rewards handling far more than power & acceleration. Thats how the GTR can keep up with the Z06 and ZR1. The GT500 has never (to my knowledge) been praised for its exceptional handling abilities. Meanwhile, every time GM puts its magnetic ride onto a performance car, people take notice of how well it handles. The ZL1 is also going to be an inherently better handling car, despite its weight. Wider tires, better weight distriubution, and a stiffer chassis all improve its handling capabilities. The ring is also far from the smoothest of tracks ... not exactly ideal conditions for the live axle Mustang. And given the length of the track, I bet its almost impossible for the car to not get upset a couple of times.

All in all, I don't believe that it could even beat the ZL1 around the 'ring, let alone spank it.

[KLR ZL1]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Not at all. I think we all understand why GM was there with the ZL1 just as they have been with other cars from the GM lineup. There's no telling how many laps and adjustments were made to the ZL1 before getting that time and dialing in the car was the reason they were there!

In some cases, people make it out like all GM did was hop into a production ZL1 and turn in a 7:41 their first time around the track which is far from reality. It may have taken them hundreds of runs to get that time and do we have any evidence they were ever able to back it up with a similar run? Repeatability does mean something to me and others I know.

So you are saying if someone ran a 9.0 second 1/4 mile one time because conditions were perfect that you would say BS because they could not duplicat it again. Even if they ran 9.5 or 9.8 on the same day. GM has the video PERIOD. All it takes is one time with proof. They didn't just come out and say OH we ran 7:41 lap time, but just take our word for it. I am sure that manufacturers are aloted certain amount of time or even days to run on this course.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I don't see anything that would give the GT500 a substantial advantage over the ZL1. The Nurburgring rewards handling far more than power & acceleration. Thats how the GTR can keep up with the Z06 and ZR1. The GT500 has never (to my knowledge) been praised for its exceptional handling abilities. Meanwhile, every time GM puts its magnetic ride onto a performance car, people take notice of how well it handles. The ZL1 is also going to be an inherently better handling car, despite its weight. Wider tires, better weight distriubution, and a stiffer chassis all improve its handling capabilities. The ring is also far from the smoothest of tracks ... not exactly ideal conditions for the live axle Mustang. And given the length of the track, I bet its almost impossible for the car to not get upset a couple of times.

All in all, I don't believe that it could even beat the ZL1 around the 'ring, let alone spank it.

The GT-R rips no matter what track you put it on. I find it amusing that we are left holding onto the ring time vs. the GT500. What happens when the ring time (if released) for the GT500 is better than the ZL1? The ZL1 is no doubt a very capable machine but many of you have no idea what the current GT500 with the SVTPP option can do as is, stock. The M3 has long been commended for its handling capabilities and guess what, the current GT500 with its live axle "spanks" it around a real world track, the CTS-V also can't keep up. We don't even know yet how the ZL1 is gonna stack up vs the current the GT500 and given the published 1/4 and 0-60 times, it isn't much better and with DRs on both cars, I will take the current GT500. The '13 GT500 is another monster altogether. I said it 6 months ago, insider news of 600+ GT500 in the works...and I will say now, the '13GT500 will "spank" the ZL1. I could care less though. I want a ZL1!

[The IOM Ninja]

I know I have a bookmark on my computer at home that has something to the affect that ring times are nothing but something to look at. Dragoneye said this, back in 2008 I believe, about the Camaro SS, it was the perfect fluke to happen upon it.

[chain777]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I don't see anything that would give the GT500 a substantial advantage over the ZL1. The Nurburgring rewards handling far more than power & acceleration. Thats how the GTR can keep up with the Z06 and ZR1. The GT500 has never (to my knowledge) been praised for its exceptional handling abilities. Meanwhile, every time GM puts its magnetic ride onto a performance car, people take notice of how well it handles. The ZL1 is also going to be an inherently better handling car, despite its weight. Wider tires, better weight distriubution, and a stiffer chassis all improve its handling capabilities. The ring is also far from the smoothest of tracks ... not exactly ideal conditions for the live axle Mustang. And given the length of the track, I bet its almost impossible for the car to not get upset a couple of times.

All in all, I don't believe that it could even beat the ZL1 around the 'ring, let alone spank it.

I don't know, I think ~100hp (70hp - 300lbs less weight) is pretty substantial. And as far as handling abilities are concerned, both the v6 and 5.0 out handle their Camaro counterparts, and the Boss gets around a track pretty well. A stiff chassis and MR shocks are all well and good, but overcoming 2+ tons of weight is no small feat.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

The GT-R rips no matter what track you put it on. I find it amusing that we are left holding onto the ring time vs. the GT500. What happens when the ring time (if released) for the GT500 is better than the ZL1? The ZL1 is no doubt a very capable machine but many of you have no idea what the current GT500 with the SVTPP option can do as is, stock. The M3 has long been commended for its handling capabilities and guess what, the current GT500 with its live axle "spanks" it around a real world track, the CTS-V also can't keep up. We don't even know yet how the ZL1 is gonna stack up vs the current the GT500 and given the published 1/4 and 0-60 times, it isn't much better and with DRs on both cars, I will take the current GT500. The '13 GT500 is another monster altogether. I said it 6 months ago, insider news of 600+ GT500 in the works...and I will say now, the '13GT500 will "spank" the ZL1. I could care less though. I want a ZL1!

I know exactly what a Mustang is capable of. I built one that pulls 1.33 Gs in steady state turns. I also know what it needs modified to get there. We are all waiting to see what Ford has done to match the chassis to the engine.

The current Mustang GT500 will be in the pits with no brakes if it tried to run with the M3 for 20 laps. I can tell you the same is true for a GT500 and a Camaro SS. The Mustang will be faster, until the rear brakes give out and put it in the pits.

As for magazine test drivers, all I can say is they THINK they can drive. They are no different than the rest of us. We all think we can drive, until you get in a car with a race car driver, then you know what we do and what they do are very different.

I very much enjoy my Mustang. In its current state, it is faster than a ZL1. It took a lot to get from showroom to where it is. Off the showroom floor, the Camaro SS is a better drive, a better car. From the currently available information on the new GT500 I believe the ZL1 will be a better drive, a better car off the showroom floor.

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by chain777

I don't know, I think ~100hp (70hp - 300lbs less weight) is pretty substantial. And as far as handling abilities are concerned, both the v6 and 5.0 out handle their Camaro counterparts, and the Boss gets around a track pretty well. A stiff chassis and MR shocks are all well and good, but overcoming 2+ tons of weight is no small feat.

Interesting.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by chain777

I don't know, I think ~100hp (70hp - 300lbs less weight) is pretty substantial. And as far as handling abilities are concerned, both the v6 and 5.0 out handle their Camaro counterparts, and the Boss gets around a track pretty well. A stiff chassis and MR shocks are all well and good, but overcoming 2+ tons of weight is no small feat.

yep, it's what you can do with what you have...live axle or not. So, we wait and see what the monster pony '13 GT500 can do with is 650hp...better get it to the ground or