GM BANKRUPTCY/ COMPANY SPLIT

[dodson914]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

Bro even if the filing goes through why not get your car??? GM will come out of this stronger and leaner, then what your gonna kick yourself in the ass when everyone is driving a Camaro and your not? Don't be so scared fear is a big part of the reason this economy is still stagnant!

QFT

[Tomash]

1) Hire managers from Honda and/or Toyota that made these companies successfull.
2) Listen and apply whatever they say without any sentiment for brands/names/american_whatever/how_we_always_did_it
3) Profit!

[catmaster1]

Not to mention we had no problem with the economy UNTIL the gov't said we did a million times. Thankfully the upper midwest is not being hit by the economy and housing market like much of the U.S.

[MrIcky]

GMC also has the commercial truck arm. I thought they were doing OK relatively speaking.

[manimsoblack]

Originally Posted by Tomash

1) Hire managers from Honda and/or Toyota that made these companies successfull.
2) Listen and apply whatever they say without any sentiment for brands/names/american_whatever/how_we_always_did_it
3) Profit!

ur doing it wrong

[attymf]

The problem is not how much workers on the assembly line make. Its the cost of retired or disabled workers.

The Union forced the american manufacturers into a deal that made it easy to go out on disability and that someone could retire at age 48. GM has to pay these people for the rest of their lives. It would be a sh'tty thing to do but the car makers need to go bankrupt on these people and to get the union contract voided and throw them out. I read somewhere that these costs are like $5K per car. Imagine how sales/market share of the american car makers would increase if all vehicles were $5K less to buyers. A chevy Avea would have a starting price under $8K, a Cobalt $11K and a base Camaro at $18K.

The car makers could actually pay the current worker more and become much more profitable.

When you read stories about GM notice the amount they owe and to whom. You'll see a $20 plus billion dollar debt.

[manimsoblack]

IMO there's no place for bashing the UAW so much, the economy is set up in a similar way to the FCAT (for those who don't know it's a horrid little test that florida students have to take to graduate that is graded in % vs everyone else who took it).No matter how well you do the bottom 25% still fail. So if everyone goes to college and get a degree in a useful and different trade the people who didn't do as well as others will still be rocking that McDonalds cap. So

Originally Posted by fastball

And the beauty of America and a free market is that you have the power to make your own future...... if you don't want that $12-15/hr job, get an education or take up a valuable trade (of which there are many, non-union, respectable trades that are very lucrative - moreso than car building).

Not so much.

Since everything GMC offers is available as something else, maybe GM should make it strictly a fleet brand?

Chevy, Caddy and Buick are making money, keep em. Maybe Pontiac if they can find a way to make it a niche brand but if not, I'll miss it. As far as Saturn, Saab and Hummer go... I'll miss the Sky.

[Design1stCode2nd]

This is exactly what some people have been saying for the past couple of years. GM only needs Chevy and Cadillac. There isn’t a GMC that isn’t a rebadge so why should it exist? Buick has all of 3 vehicles and none of them need to exist (Enclave is nice but not really needed with the new SRX and Traverse). Take the Solstice or Sky and move them to Chevy or not. Move the G8 to Chevy as the Impala and Impala SS.

So why did they need billions to come to this conclusion? So now we spent billions, then they go bankrupt only to spend more billions. Why not just go bankrupt first and save the money.

And it was all of 6 months ago when Ole Rick said Bankruptcy was not an option.

[manimsoblack]

Originally Posted by attymf

The problem is not how much workers on the assembly line make. Its the cost of retired or disabled workers.

The Union forced the american manufacturers into a deal that made it easy to go out on disability and that someone could retire at age 48. GM has to pay these people for the rest of their lives. It would be a sh'tty thing to do but the car makers need to go bankrupt on these people and to get the union contract voided and throw them out. I read somewhere that these costs are like $5K per car. Imagine how sales/market share of the american car makers would increase if all vehicles were $5K less to buyers. A chevy Avea would have a starting price under $8K, a Cobalt $11K and a base Camaro at $18K.

The car makers could actually pay the current worker more and become much more profitable.

When you read stories about GM notice the amount they owe and to whom. You'll see a $20 plus billion dollar debt.

I'm kinda torn about this. It'll work, but some people will get screwed... hard. But that's capitalism. Maybe they can work out a deal with the gov. to continue the services in a gradually decreasing way for the next XX years...

[manimsoblack]

Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd

This is exactly what some people have been saying for the past couple of years. GM only needs Chevy and Cadillac. There isn’t a GMC that isn’t a rebadge so why should it exist? Buick has all of 3 vehicles and none of them need to exist (Enclave is nice but not really needed with the new SRX and Traverse). Take the Solstice or Sky and move them to Chevy or not. Move the G8 to Chevy as the Impala and Impala SS.

So why did they need billions to come to this conclusion? So now we spent billions, then they go bankrupt only to spend more billions. Why not just go bankrupt first and save the money.

And it was all of 6 months ago when Ole Rick said Bankruptcy was not an option.

Except that Buick is selling well locally and globally.

[r.i.p.01slpss]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

Bro even if the filing goes through why not get your car??? GM will come out of this stronger and leaner, then what your gonna kick yourself in the ass when everyone is driving a Camaro and your not? Don't be so scared fear is a big part of the reason this economy is still stagnant!

Amen to that!!!

[The_Blur]

Just because the "good" brands remain, as many of you seem to see it, does not mean that a new Chevy Motor Company will survive. The reason for this is that the fact that so much press has gone into labeling GM companies as poor competitors, regardless of profit margin. Recently, more press has gone into the poor state of GM sales than even Chrysler's weaker state.

The ultimate fact is that any company labeled as bankrupt is sure to have poor sales, even if the US government backs those products with guarantees. Most people will see the word "bankrupt" and stop considering that brand. In the future, regardless of how its products compare to the market, the company will be labeled as a bad brand. For instance, I went to the KC Auto Show to find a lot of people in the GM section, but import spokespersons were still claiming that their companies were safer, more efficient, and higher in quality. Those are bold lies that people will believe, even after looking at the Malibu, CTS, Camaro, Cobalt, and fuel efficient hybrids that GM has to offer.

If GM goes bankrupt, then it will be hard on the remaining company. Instant profit will be impossible with less spreading of the cost of R&D, so new cars will be less impressive, shared platforms will no longer exist, creating more expensive production, costs will rise, and sales will plummet. Is all of this what you want? It's bad business in a bad market.

Go ahead and support it, but I better not see you on the streets in an import when all of this goes down.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

I was going to highlight what is wrong with this statement, but pretty much the whole damn thing is ate up.
I don't want someone who only makes $12 to $15 an hour to be building my camaro. If it bothers you that a fellow american can make a living doing there job, then I think you are the problem, not the union or union employees. I am going to sum up how I feel about your rhetoric with this: :middlefinger: with

Okay, I overreached..... I know people who build Civics make more than 15/hr. Significantly more. And the fine people building our Camaro deserve more than that too. The difference is the legacy costs and health insurance.

I don't have a problem with someone making that kind of money doing the job RIGHT with the right attitude, productivity, and attention to detail. I DO have a problem when they make that money, and when a light bulb goes out they say "I'm not changing it because it's the electrician's job". Perhaps that is no longer an issue with American assembly lines, but at one time it was and GM and the unions need to do everything to change that stigma in American's public perception.

The big problem is health insurance for retirees. Why doesn't GM just go with a third party healthcare provider that most retirees in America have? Where the retiree pays some out of pocket and GM pays some as well, but not 100% of all the bills?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by fastball

The big problem is health insurance for retirees. Why doesn't GM just go with a third party healthcare provider that most retirees in America have? Where the retiree pays some out of pocket and GM pays some as well, but not 100% of all the bills?

They've got a plan in place. It's called the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA)...or something like that...might be 'benefits'.

Anyways -- It was set to come 'online' in 2010. Basically -- GM, Ford, and Chrysler makes a one-time payment to an account that's managed by the Union. This money will be managed in such a way that it will support worker healthcare costs for 80 years -- all while GM pays nothing. I'm not sure where it stands now with the aggressive cost-cutting, though...but it was in the works, and was very promising.