GM'S new Alpha Platform under difficulties!!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

with the zeta platform the camaro took a step backwards, i would like to know who was responsible for making the camaro such at fat ass, i would like to do this to him :fighting00 72::slice:, but seriously weight is a big issue in all aspects of fuel economy, performance, peoples buying preferences. next guy how facks up the camaro will be tarred feathered and hanged by the cojones

Well then what other RWD platform would you have preferred? The CTS coupe isn't any lighter. And GM couldn't invest in an all new architecture for 100,000 Camaros and maintain the Camaro price point. So you might want to rethink yourself there. You should buy the person a beer for being able to give us a Camaro at all. And if you knew a bit more about the difficulties of getting a car designed? Well you'd understand completely why the Camaro is the way it is. I've done walk arounds with people and asked, "would you give that up?". "No!!!" Ok then that's what makes a heavier car.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If the weight of the Camaro is so terrible, why did you buy one?

Like he said

[Caliman93230]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If the weight of the Camaro is so terrible, why did you buy one?

Easy because I could, no but seriously I've been working on the deleting mufflers, washer bottle going to lighter rims, they are many things that are just unneccery mass in the car right now, but its a matter of pulling things apart or replacing them and it gets expensive, but I love my camaro so I have to bite the bullet, It just gets me frustrated knowing that this car could have been much lighter and it is not, just saying

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

Easy because I could, no but seriously I've been working on the deleting mufflers, washer bottle going to lighter rims, they are many things that are just unneccery mass in the car right now, but its a matter of pulling things apart or replacing them and it gets expensive, but I love my camaro so I have to bite the bullet, It just gets me frustrated knowing that this car could have been much lighter and it is not, just saying

But it couldn't have been much lighter. At least not from the factory. What you do to your car is your own business.

Basically GM had to make do with what they had. Zeta isn't exactly the easiest platform to build a sports coupe off of, it's meant for full-size RWD sedans.

[toesuf94]

Number 3: Your detailed and clearly explained responses have been great to read. Thank you for taking the time to clearly explain those points to us.

This is why I love GM...guys like you and Scott that come on these forums and explain the where's and why's of auto manufacturing from the point of view that matters, not some hack blogger or mag writter who has probably never been IN an auto plant.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Z284ever

Hi guys. I'm one of the co-authors of that piece and also the Camaro Forums moderator on GMI.

Believe me, if our sources weren't dead nuts reliable on this, we wouldn't have gone with a front page story. You guys should see some of the stuff we have which we didn't print.
Charlie

Hi Charlie, thanks for posting!

With respect...no source that can't be named can be "dead nuts on"...it's very unlikely because things are always changing. Informants can be close, and educated assumptions can be made by outsiders....but that's about it. I've yet to encounter a GM person that actually knew intimate details and was willing to talk about them, too. Especially not something as exorbitant and volatile as this. Most who talk are people who *think* they know...

I love what GMI does, I follow the updates regularly...but I think they were very off-base on this one...There was much exaggeration before the 5th gen was released. Much fear-induced panic (over what turned out to be nothing, I might add)...I would like to think this won't be the case for the sixth generation Camaro....

And frankly...I find this particular editorial to be a little irresponsible...

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

Easy because I could, no but seriously I've been working on the deleting mufflers, washer bottle going to lighter rims, they are many things that are just unneccery mass in the car right now, but its a matter of pulling things apart or replacing them and it gets expensive, but I love my camaro so I have to bite the bullet, It just gets me frustrated knowing that this car could have been much lighter and it is not, just saying

May I ask: are you an automotive engineer?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Z284ever

Hi guys. I'm one of the co-authors of that piece and also the Camaro Forums moderator on GMI.

Believe me, if our sources weren't dead nuts reliable on this, we wouldn't have gone with a front page story. You guys should see some of the stuff we have which we didn't print.
Anyhow, the biggest deal here to me is how this impacts our 6th gen Camaro. The front suspension stuff should not be a big issue for the Camaro, for a number of reasons. The mass part of it is a problem though - but GM knows it's a problem. We've got about 4 years before the 6th gen Camaro comes out. That's a long time to work on doing what needs to be done.

And trust me. GM and the Camaro Team KNOW, KNOW that they must do MUCH better on mass next time than they did this time.

In the meantime, we'll be watching and hopefully nudging them along in the right direction.

Charlie

LMAO

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Z284ever

Care to elaborate?

Oh, you know my saying, those that know don't tell. Those that think they know or want to feel important sometimes do.

I am just wondering what the motivation is to create a story with a lot of mis and wrong information that is anti-GM. I've read people in response to his "story" make statements like, "oh see GM still can't get it right", or "GM blanked this one up". Why? Look at the launches since 2010. Camaro, LaCrosse, Cruze, Equinox, Terrain, Regal, SRX. I'd say GM is getting it right and the sales and lack of rebates on those products is all the proof you need.

[ckaram]

Cool thread. All great projects usually contain angst, stress and substantial conflict behind the scenes as the stakeholders all try to get their needs/desires met. Leadership is defined (by me) as the ability to successfully manage through these challenges and deliver a great product which meets the planned objectives (efficacy).

Thanks Number 3 and fbodfather for keeping it real. Subscribed.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Oh, you know my saying, those that know don't tell. Those that think they know or want to feel important sometimes do.

I am just wondering what the motivation is to create a story with a lot of mis and wrong information that is anti-GM. I've read people in response to his "story" make statements like, "oh see GM still can't get it right", or "GM blanked this one up". Why? Look at the launches since 2010. Camaro, LaCrosse, Cruze, Equinox, Terrain, Regal, SRX. I'd say GM is getting it right and the sales and lack of rebates on those products is all the proof you need.

with the exception of full size trucks of course, sorry bro, had to do it. You left yourself open for that one. lol

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by truth411

with the exception of full size trucks of course, sorry bro, had to do it. You left yourself open for that one. lol

Keyword: On those products. AKA new launch products. GMT-900s have been around since the 2007 model year.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Z284ever

Wow, you are really off base. Umm, and I've noticed you aren't able to specifically say what you think is "misinformation".

No problem, lots of guys like you on the internet. I'd bet the day before GM went into BK you were scolding people for talking about GM's imaginary money and management problems.

Far from creating an "anti GM" piece as you state, it's goal was to inform and yes - put GM's feet to the fire to do the right thing.

I guess you can either be the eternal apologist or maybe get ahead of the problem so GM doesn't shoot itself in the foot. Which one is the TRUE enthusiast? Personally, I know the answer to that.

You know Number 3 is an engineer for GM, right? Don't expect him to come out and say what specifically is wrong or misinformation. As he said, those who know don't tell. If you can keep your sources anonymous on GMI when you write those stories, thats great. But GM knows who Number 3 is and I bet they watch everything that he says, and he likes his job a little too much to risk it blabbing about future product.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Z284ever

Wow, you are really off base. Umm, and I've noticed you aren't able to specifically say what you think is "misinformation".

Probably because he isn't planning on an early (or forced) retirement.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Z284ever

Fair enough. But GM is a big place with vast engineering assets. Just because you are part of that, doesn't mean you are aware of ALL that goes on there. I'll share a litte tidbit with you here. As it now turns out, it appears that this story has made some people aware of certain issues internally. That alone has provided some value for GM I think.

And before Number 3 spews any more "you must be anti-GM" venom, I'll have you know that I currently own 5 GM products, all but one bought new. I also owned thousands of dollars in old GM stock which for whatever weird personal reason, I let vaporize to dust rather than sell.

So, if we want to have a grown up conversation on this or any other topic, I'm all in. Don't appreciate the "you are anti-GM" hyperbole and personal attacks though.

Thanks for letting me rant.

Attacks? Not to you personally, sorry if you as a "journalist" took it that way. It's only that you started a story that lead to people attacking GM.

So your response is interesting in that you want to "tell the inside scoop" but you don't want the information challenged by other insiders. In "breaking this story", are you acting as a journalist? or are you acting a guy who "knows stuff" and just wants to post so people will think he's in the know? If you are just a web poster and your feelings are hurt, then you have my honest appology.

But one of the things I do here (and Camaro5 is home, I don't get too far away other than when Fen sends me to GMInsidenews to review something) is defend GM when it is needlessy criticized. And in this case your big news lead to exactly that.

Everybody has an opinion and that's fine, I try not to argue those. You didn't post an opinion. You posted something as fact and I thought you were able to take criticism of the fact without feeling attacked.