Just one more reason to hate the UAW!!!!

[rlshky]

Originally Posted by HeatherR

I agree...Unions played an important role in regards to creating fairness and safety in the workplace, however, the UAW specifically has become way more than fair pay! I too am a teacher, and part of a union. My problem is the fact that I obtained a BS and a Master's degree (with all of the time, work, and $ that entails), must complete a min. of 6 semester hours every 5 years for cont. ed. (again time, $$) and I could have made more money leaving my HS and starting the line a few miles away from my HS in Lordstown, Ohio. Trust me I graduated with many people who chose this route and 12 years later many are still making more $$ than me, not to mention benefits, etc. No one who works in an unskilled trade should be paid as much as many UAW members are being paid. No one should have job security to the extreme of the jobs bank! No one should be given health care with no premium or co-pay (this leads to abuse-and as a result higher cost the the company footing the bill!!) No one should be hired at 18, work 30 years, and retire with a full pension they plan on collecting until 80-85! Retire at 48 and live retired on a pension for as many as 40 years! Seriously, it's a wonder any of the Detroit 3 stayed profitable at all--ever!! BTW, I have too opened a contract and taken concessions for my district, have taken 0% raises for 3 consecutive years, and I don't want to even talk about the increases to my health care premiums--and I am an educated, skilled, UNION member!!!

In my opinion I think the problem with what you are saying is that you feel like you should be ENTITLED to make more money because you went to college and are "educated and skilled".

Let me first say that I'm 22 and am almost done with getting my Bachelors but I have come to the realization that it doesn't guarantee anything. It may give me better opportunities but I may never use them.

The reason for this is I also am a unionized worker. I work part-time for UPS (teamsters union) only about 20 hours a week and I have better benefits than my Mom does who's exactly like you and is a teacher. She has a Masters in education and teaches elementary school. When I was on her insurance she'd have to pay a couple hundred extra to have me on there but with my job now if I were to have kids or a wife they'd be completely free. There's also a pension plan for the part-time workers and I get at least 30 paid days off a year. When I'm done with school and start working full time the benefits, especially for retirement get better.

I sometimes think maybe the workers who got straight into these professions with excellent benefits are the smart ones. I sometimes feel like I should of just gone straight for my current job right out of HS instead of going to college. I probably would of been driving by now and been set (full-time drivers make $30/hr currently and they get almost a $1/hr raise per year). I'm sure you feel that it's "unfair" but it's sort of just the way it is. It's life, some people get breaks and get into great jobs and others work extremely hard and "deserve" everything but don’t get it.

[HeatherR]

Originally Posted by rlshky

In my opinion I think the problem with what you are saying is that you feel like you should be ENTITLED to make more money because you went to college and are "educated and skilled".

Let me first say that I'm 22 and am almost done with getting my Bachelors but I have come to the realization that it doesn't guarantee anything. It may give me better opportunities but I may never use them.

The reason for this is I also am a unionized worker. I work part-time for UPS (teamsters union) only about 20 hours a week and I have better benefits than my Mom does who's exactly like you and is a teacher. She has a Masters in education and teaches elementary school. When I was on her insurance she'd have to pay a couple hundred extra to have me on there but with my job now if I were to have kids or a wife they'd be completely free. There's also a pension plan for the part-time workers and I get at least 30 paid days off a year. When I'm done with school and start working full time the benefits, especially for retirement get better.

I sometimes think maybe the workers who got straight into these professions with excellent benefits are the smart ones. I sometimes feel like I should of just gone straight for my current job right out of HS instead of going to college. I probably would of been driving by now and been set (full-time drivers make $30/hr currently and they get almost a $1/hr raise per year). I'm sure you feel that it's "unfair" but it's sort of just the way it is. It's life, some people get breaks and get into great jobs and others work extremely hard and "deserve" everything but don’t get it.

Well, I would like to clarify that I do not feel "entitled" to make more because I invested in an education--I was simply pointing out the reason many people feel union members are overpaid. That being said I am happy to hear you decided to go to college (I am sure your mom played a role in that decision-you'll thank her one day) because the part time job with wages and benefits you describe will not be around much longer! At 22 don't think ANY company is going to provide you with a full pension when the thirty years is up-they simply can't afford to. I would be curious what your bachelor's degree is in, since you seem willing to spend the next 30 years driving a truck and dropping of boxes for $30 an hour.

Also, your degree may not guarantee you anything--it shouldn't. Hard work and determination coupled with the degree will open a lot more doors for you than any "break" you think is out there. I would imagine in these hard times many UAW members wish they would have taken advantage of the tuition incentives their companies provided, and the ones that did are a little less stressed right now!

[dayvedayve]

Maybe the reason people feel that Union memebers are over paid is that they make more than Non-Union people doing the same job. That is the purpose of the Union. To better the working environment of its members. This proves companies will not voluntarily give workers what the Unions fight for. The reason that your teachers Union is not able to give you better pay is that they usually have to fight an uphill battle with state and local schools. Not that you don't deserve it, they just don't have the bargaiing abilities to achieve it. This is because historically Union membership is down in this country. Between the "UNion Busting" laws, rules, and actions (like what the Senate just tried) and the sad truth that America has forgotten its past when it comes to the Unions and what the fought and won. Norma Rae means nothing to todays workers. If America would work together to rebuild our Industries instead of making foriegn companies and nations richer, we might not be in this situation economically. This country was the model for the modern industrial era, now we are the model saps buying products from our enemies.

[HotRodPilot]

I was interested in the Camaro until I started visiting this site to find out more info on it. Those of you who want to keep on overpaying people for the job they do, go a head and keep on thinking that way and get some popcorn to watch the ship sink.

Just reading the drivel that comes out of so many Camaro enthusiasts mouths makes my brain hurt. Yeah, I like the car, but I'd hate to be associated with those of you stuck in a xenophobic rut. I'm sure that the feeling is mutual and most of you would rather not be associated with the "unpatriotic" person that I am. So farewell

[Wm Holden]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

slow down -

While I do not agree with the Union on many issues - they've agreed to take many concessions -- but a few Senators wanted it NOW...........and for once I agree with Ron Gettelfinger.........this has to involve a lot of paycuts and such...........

Let me ask you something:

Why is it that we would want to cut the paychecks for American Workers -- when FOREIGN governments close their markets to us using tarriffs and any number of ways to keep us out of their markets?

Why would you want to contribute to the paychecks of, oh - say the KOREANS-- what have THEY done for us lately?

Remember - the paychecks that go to - oh......say, Lordstown, Ohio Assembly workers --- put money into the local economy in Ohio - -pay for trips to places like Disneyworld - purchase goods and services from many other Americans -- THINK ABOUT IT!

We have SENATORS saying that the Big Three are 'bloated' and are 'incompetent' --

LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT, SENATOR SHELBY -- YOU AND YOUR COHORTS HAVE PUT THIS COUNTRY INTO TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DEBT -- YOU GAVE -- YES gave -- NOT loaned - GAVE -- DIAMLER AND HONDA AND HYUNDAI NEARLY A BILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD IN YOUR STATE - -
YOU PAY ILLEGAL ALIENNS WELFARE BENEFITS -- YOU SPEND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF PORKBARREL SPENDING - AND YOU VOTE YOURSELVES PAY RAISES AND HAVE THE WORLD'S BEST BENEFITS AND RETIREMENT PACKAGES -- AND YOU SAY THAT THE BIG THREE ARE BLOATED AND THAT NO ONE WANTS THEIR CARS AND TRUCKS???????

IF EVERYONE ON THIS SITE IS NOT ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY INCENSED AT OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS - THEN I GIVE THIS COUNTRY LESS THAN 10 YEARS BEFORE WE IMPLODE UPON OURSELVES.................

You meant months...Right??

[GrnMchin]

As a union (IAFF) member, before you bash them with limited info let me give you some insight. Yes every union is different, but when cuts happen most unions try to make concessions to save jobs. We have gone through a down size in my union and the mud slinging started right away because the year our contract happens to get negotiated is the year of the economic down fall. Immediately the public screamed "greedy firefighters!" they aren't thinking of their brothers and are just taking pay raises on the backs of those laid off. All of the members overwhelmingly agreed to make any concessions to keep our employees from getting laid off but never once was it openly discussed in the local newspapers so if you look at it from the point of view of the paper you would never have known that we were trying to save the jobs of our brothers behind the scene. Because the paper only posted the negatives, such as the fact that we were getting a pay raise and the people were getting laid off. The real facts are that we only asked to get paid median of our comparables and had the administration had a better handle on the budget they would have known that the increase was going to put them in the red. If they had informed us of that during negotiations, we would have stay at the current pay scale and negotiated a cost of living raise rather than the increase that was agreed upon. The other half of this that complicated matters is that after management was forced to look at the budgets, they found almost 700K that they had mismanaged and did not account for. Most of the jobs where saved and the three that we were not able to, the UNION called other locals that were hiring and found the work at other FD at Union's expense. SO to sum it up some of the issues and work that goes on behind the scenes is more then it appears, much like an Iceberg. I will hold judgment until all the details are presented. Remember the banks did not have to go into detail as to how they were going to use the money like the auto industry has. My 2 cents.

[mtaylor510]

Its a shame they could cooperate with the senate or the company.

[upheval]

Now that I have digested more info, I support the bailout of the big three. The change came from listening to some poeple who actually work for the big3 on the bottom end. I don't think it is right to make them suffer. The auto makers are going to have to make some big changes to keep afloat. Give them the money! The economy can not with stand this loss at this time.