Most of Americans support Federal aid to the Automakers

[rmyers]

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

Hey I say ....

increase the Tax on those damn Importers some more, make them come out of pocket, they are part of the reason why the big 3 is in this mess

Better yet, lets ban the unions that force the Big 3 to pay higher wages and benefits than the competition. The Big 3 could compete if the playing field was level.

Secondly, for those of you that live near a GM plant, take a ride by and see how many employees actually drive a GM vehicle. I think you might be surprised. When I visited the Corvette plant, the way it is set up, anyone that owns a Corvette (any year) or XLR gets to park in the front of the building. Regardless of position. First come first serve. Then on the side and back there are 2 parking lots. The one farthest away from the building is for employees driving non GM vehicles. The closer parking lot is for employees driving GM vehicles.

Call it what you want, a bailout or a loan. It is a bad idea. A loan will only buy them probably less then a year. Then they will either need more money, or will be forced to reorganize in Chapter 11. That begs the question, if they do get the money and then 10 months later after to file bankruptcy, will the loan be part of the bankruptcy?

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I'll tell you what happened.

Roger Smith. Quality problems started with him. And they STILL gave him a multi-million dollar retirement bonus.

Quality is never one person. In fact, it starts with the willingness to use quality materials for product being made, and is ultimately the baliwick of the person doing the actual work of building the product. The problem has been, as it has been in many other industries, that organized labor and government regulation makes it almost impossible to remove someone who has poor workmanship from his/her job. Without this option, management's hands are tied in ensuring the quality of the product in question.

[PsyDoc]

Originally Posted by Iroczlover

its not them running the companies in to the ground its also due to the fact that over 60% of americans drive Foreign vehicles.

Exactly. But, WHY are Americans driving non-GM, non-Ford, non-Chrysler vehicles? Apparently, the other companies are offering something that the Big 3 refuse to develop and/or implement. I've only owned domestics (7 vehicles) and my dad has owned a mix and currently owns a C6. I want to see the automakers survive, but I do not see that happening without the help and protection Chapter 11 provides. In a free-market economy, it looks like the majority of consumers have spoken. It's hard to save a sinking ship (or ships) when no one pays attention to the alarm bells until it's much too late.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Quality is never one person. In fact, it starts with the willingness to use quality materials for product being made, and is ultimately the baliwick of the person doing the actual work of building the product. The problem has been, as it has been in many other industries, that organized labor and government regulation makes it almost impossible to remove someone who has poor workmanship from his/her job. Without this option, management's hands are tied in ensuring the quality of the product in question.

That reminds me . . .
If 3 screws are installed instead of 4, its the worker's fault for doing it wrong, and its the QC guy's fault for not finding it. When 4 are installed, and the assembly still falls apart, its the engineers fault. And when inferior material is used, blame it on the bean counters (or expensive workforce, the choice is yours)

[TheClassicCarKid]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Really, so half the workforce makes under $5/hr? Isn't that illegal considering the minimum wage and all?

For only so long before they would have to find a job. And as far as retraining, that should be on their dime, not taxpayers. Walmart, Burger King, etc. all have excellent benefits and a good training program.

Oh well. let the chips fall where they may.



Yeah, I am aware and have stated it elsewhere. I just use GM because it's so near and dear to so many people on this site. I swear, too many people on here would rather see GM be bailed out so they can get a Camaro then give a crap what it would mean, long term to the American taxpayer, to do so.

I think you'd be surprised. There are a lot of fine people on this site.

[Camaro_Corvette]

No body polled me about this...

[Sierra]

I dont think GM mishandled their money. I think they actually were a step ahead of the competitors domestic competitors with hybrids, quality and small cars. It is a shame though, there is an areticle out on cnn's website that one of the reason's gm is failing is because of percieved quality in their workmanship. perceived? So Joe Schmo who has never had a gm car thinks they suck just cuz he heard from a neighbor they suck? Idiocy.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

They did mismanage the company; why do you think people quit buying their cars and started buying imports?

Im old enough to remember when asian cars were considered crap cars and you would only buy them if you could afford nothing else. Something must have happened over the years to get where we are today, at least in the general public perception of import vs. domestic cars.

You answered the question yourself... people bought the jap cars because they were CHEAP, not good. to compete with them American companies had to cut costs, which meant quality of the parts were less and less, until the US companies were considered making expensive junk.. all the while we were sending billions over to Japan so they could improve their products... it was a catch 22 situation. the more we did to compete price wise, the worse our stuff got... the worse our stuff got the more people bought their stuff... if you look througout the last 40 years that is exactly what happened with the toy industry, the electronics industry, and now the auto industry. Something I have been saying was going to happen for the last 35 years...

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

You answered the question yourself... people bought the jap cars because they were CHEAP, not good. to compete with them American companies had to cut costs, which meant quality of the parts were less and less, until the US companies were considered making expensive junk.. all the while we were sending billions over to Japan so they could improve their products... it was a catch 22 situation. the more we did to compete price wise, the worse our stuff got... the worse our stuff got the more people bought their stuff... if you look througout the last 40 years that is exactly what happened with the toy industry, the electronics industry, and now the auto industry. Something I have been saying was going to happen for the last 35 years...

If you saw that coming, that was some good foresight.

The truth is that a lot of factors went into Japan's automotive success. Some of that comes from the US political interest in making a strong democracy over there. When we invested in Japan, we helped them build products without ever thinking that it could eventually hurt us in the long run.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

If you saw that coming, that was some good foresight.

The truth is that a lot of factors went into Japan's automotive success. Some of that comes from the US political interest in making a strong democracy over there. When we invested in Japan, we helped them build products without ever thinking that it could eventually hurt us in the long run.

Didn't someone say during the cold war that they would take over the USA without ever firing a shot... I know it was the russians, but it looks like the Japanese or Chinese may just beat them to it...

oh I found this
don't you think it is time that the US manufacturers demand the same workers compensation package from the UAW as they give the Japanese manufacturers?