UAW Killing Big 3?

[Georgie]

Originally Posted by Croathlete

Here's an example

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/..._toyota_prius/

that's a good example... the japanese can be crazy about their work. i think that be harder to come by in the good ole USA... speaking of, time for a cigarette break

[patriotpa]

Yes, UAW is a big part of the problem.

[GTAHVIT]

Agreed,

Japan needs unions That is where they can be a big help. But that will never happen in Japan.

If I could have it my way. Unions should be an "oversight" organization. They go in and fix a company then they leave.

[MrIcky]

I have ZERO faith now in any bailout proposal. The 700 Billion TARP plan that was sold to the American public got unceremoniously changed the other day. Now we taxpayers aren't getting assets for our tax dollars, instead we're helping fund more unsecured credit card debt.

Now I am asked to take an additional hit and make a 'loan' or 'bailout' that we have no guarantee will be implemented as promised.

Unless the big 3 make deep fundamental changes to their entire operation, then any bailout you give the big 3 will amount to nothing more than extra bran in your diet- congratulations! now your turd is floating.

I would only consider money to the Big 3 if the Big 3 became the Big 2 and the money is used to modernize plants to flexible line type plants and reduced overhead. Additionally, the government will have to get involved in talks with the Unions to reduce overhead to the point that the Big 2 can be competitive at all market segments.

The only way this will happen is if there are even more layoffs- so this is a long term solution that's going to make the economy sag even more. If the government just throws money at the problem with no real 5 year/10 year plan to profitability- I will vomit all over ******** shoes.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

Unless the big 3 make deep fundamental changes to their entire operation, then any bailout you give the big 3 will amount to nothing more than extra bran in your diet- congratulations! now your turd is floating.

So that's why they float! I learn something new everyday I logon to Camaro5.com....

[AngryAmish]

the human resource laws of today are NOT enough. for every good company, there are ten that break laws, especially in warehousing. the biggest problem is workers lack of knowledge of their rights...knowledge that should and can be provided by the companies they work for. most companies take the tax break for providing the information yet keep their employees in the dark.

that being said, i blame both the companies and the unions. both need to learn to come to a middle ground. now, i know absolutely nothing about the bargaining agreements between the car companies and their workers, but if their are employees making $75/hr....despite being union myself i have to say thats kind of ridiculous. we just ratified a new contract at my place of business. our contract couldnt have ended at a worse time.
both us and the company managed to put greed aside and come up with something beneficial to both parties. nobody lost anything, but no side gained anything either. its a small price to pay to save families jobs and save the company i work for. where i work, only employees 1-308 are garanteed 40 hours a week. if we would have gotten overzealous on this contract employees 309-500 would have felt the weight of it.

sometimes you just gotta do whats right. $75/hr...regardless if the government bails them out or not, will end up picking up most of that tab through unemployment. im still having a hard time seeing them making 75/hr though. is that flat pay or their package with benefits included? even with benefits its still high. our package comes to roughly $50/hr including pay, pension and healthcare...and make no mistake, we have a GOOD healthcare plan and a very competitive pension. i would have to think their healthcare would be cheaper then ours because the size of their company DWARFS ours.

[MrIcky]

It's not $75 per hour straight pay. However GM had a widely publicized statistic that their benefit load alone was $1600 per car. Toyota's US only plants wouldn't state their exact amount but said it was under $1000. UAW states their straight wage at around $35/hr now if I remember correctly- however the fee load means the employer is paying closer to $45 before we get to the benefits.

Also GM had negotiated away their future to save money now a while ago. They said they didn't have money to increase wages but lets talk retirement thinking they could set up an retirement fund. They've never made enough on investments to fully fund the retirement fund so they have to dump some portion of straight profits into the retirement fund. They have a retiree to current employee ratio of nearly 2 to 1 so they are SCREWED.

[Wm Holden]

They will break the unions with this.

[bcannan354]

Originally Posted by Hylton

So that's why they float! I learn something new everyday I logon to Camaro5.com....

Hylton that's why I love this site, people like you that post funny sh!*. That hilarious

No pun intended

[DGthe3]

If GM didn't have to pay billions and billions each year because unions, they would have more cash on hand and/or wouldn't have had to cheap out on cars and/or sold cars at a lower price, increasing sales. The unions are a big part of the mess that the domestic automakers are in. To say that GM is hurting because of events from the last year, while true, is short sighted. To say that GM could have prevented this, well hindsight is 20/20.

[Wm Holden]

our legislation has caused the largest company on the planet to become obsolete...
between unions and cafe it's game over.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I don't believe the money would go to the UAW...it's a loan to the company. It has nothing to do with the union workers.


You absolutely sure about that? Last time I checked, the workers in a Toyota plant somewhere out west wanted to unionize because Toyota was shafting them all...



They have achieved a competitive contract with the union...everyone here seems to be forgetting the contract signed between the Big three and the UAW last year...(if memory serves) New hires have to start at HALF of what they used to, and GM's bought a real good chunk of the older people (highest paid due to seniority) out into retirement already. Then there was the PRIMARY issue...the REAL issue that caused the UAW to have such a negative effect on GM: HEALTHCARE. Low and behold, that issue will be resolved in 2010, when the UAW takes over the healthcare costs. I agree with you; wait until 2010; and watch GM's losses get less...bad.


Still...I don't understand how the Union is to blame for what's going on right now. Is this simply a scapegoat to take out fustration of GM's poor outlook on? The fact that they're selling nearly 40% LESS vehicles...and almost all of them are the profitable ones...simply DWARFS any issues they have with the union workers....:(

You said it, they had to buy out workers to get rid of their ridiculous salaries. Want to take a guess where all their cash went? It costs them money just to downsize. This is a free country, which means any employer should be allowed to hire/fire whenever and whoever they want. If the employee does'nt like it-too bad! Go get another job. Oh wait, most of them can't make anywhere near that somewhere else. People should be paid what they are worth, that is called supply and demand. If they can demand a certain pay by blackmailing the company, eventually that company will not be able to compete. The head of the UAW said labor represents only 8-10% of an automobiles cost now, he is neglecting to mention all the cash GM burned buying out the greedy workers.

The inflexibility of the unions is extremely expensive to GM when they are selling less cars. Look at how Toyota does'nt have cashflow problems, because they can lay people off as demand slumps. As long as business is good, the unions are not the problem. However, when things slow down or the company loses market share, the union contracts are a death sentence.

As for the upper management, it may seem like a lot, but to attract and keep top talent, you have to pay what any other company would pay at that level. Again, it is supply and demand so if you restrict their pay the top talent will just go elsewhere.

[Dom]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081115/auto_...telfinger.html

[chevydude26]

not completely the unions fault...its managements fault for giving into their demands and giving them the company...

the problem with unions is that you end up paying above market value and as a worker you forfiet your right to negotiate your own pay raise...so whether or not you deserve a pay raise no matter how you perform your going to get paid as much as the worst worker even if your the best

gm pays more for retired workers than regular workers and gm's costs are 60% more than toyotas...

this article talks about it in depth

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/lm33.cfm