Americans Say US Cars Top Asian Autos - Page 3

*KILLER74Z28* · 04-22-2010, 04:41 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- America's love affair with the automobile has a new spark -- a renewed affection for U.S.-made cars after a long dalliance with foreign automakers.

Slightly more Americans now say the United States makes better-quality vehicles than Asia does, with 38 percent saying U.S. cars are best and 33 percent naming autos made by Asian countries, according to an Associated Press-GfK Poll.

The survey suggests those numbers are largely fueled by a plunge in Toyota's reputation and an upsurge in Ford's. The poll was conducted in March, as Toyota was being roiled by nightmarish publicity over its recall of more than 8 million vehicles around the globe and allegations that it responded sluggishly to safety concerns.

Though the U.S. advantage is modest, it marks a significant turnabout for American automakers battered by recession and relentless competition from foreign manufacturers. When the same question was asked in a December 2006 AP-AOL poll, 46 percent said Asian countries made superior cars, while just 29 percent preferred American vehicles, reflecting a perception of U.S. automotive inferiority that began taking hold about three decades ago.

"Toyota's problems are not to be minimized here," David Williams, dean of the business administration school at Wayne State University in Detroit, Mich., said in explaining the attitude shift.

In both AP polls, Japan -- home to brands like Toyota, Honda and Nissan -- was by far the dominant Asian nation volunteered as producing the best cars. European autos -- which include BMW, Mercedes Benz and Volkswagen -- were called top quality by 15 percent last month, about the same as the 17 percent who said so four years ago.

Williams and others also cited a fresh look Americans are giving U.S. automakers, especially Ford and General Motors. Though GM and Chrysler went through bankruptcy last year and the federal government invested $80 billion to keep them afloat, GM has revamped its lineup with more fuel-efficient and crossover vehicles. Analysts say Ford revived its reputation by not accepting the taxpayer bailout and improving its vehicles' gasoline mileage.

Highlighting the changing attitudes, 15 percent in the March poll said Toyota makes the best cars, down from 25 percent who said so in 2006. Moving in the opposite direction was Ford, cited as tops by just 9 percent in 2006 but by 18 percent last month.

Eighteen percent said GM cars were best, little changed from 2006. Chrysler -- which continues to struggle -- remained mired at 3 percent.

"They last," Charlotte Flentge, 60, of Chester, Ill., a Chevrolet Cavalier owner, said of American autos. "You get a good American car, you know you have a quality car you can be safe in and not be afraid to put your family in."

Those likeliest to say Asian-made autos are superior included men, the better educated and residents of Western states. U.S. cars were a strong preference for those age 50 and up and rural residents.

Overall, though, only 51 percent in last month's poll expressed strong confidence that cars sold in the U.S. are safe, with owners of domestic and foreign cars giving similar responses. The 2006 survey did not ask that question.

"Toyota is leading the parade in reducing confidence in the safety of automobiles," said Gerald C. Meyers, a former auto executive with American Motors and now a University of Michigan business professor. "I suspect that's holding the number down a lot."

Despite consumers' altered views, the poll showed that allegiance remains strong to many makes. Well over nine in 10 owners of Fords, GMs, Hondas and Toyotas expressed satisfaction with their cars, with the figure slightly lower for Chryslers.

Among the brand loyalists is Vernon Harmon, 44, a police officer from Rock Hill, S.C., proud owner of a Toyota and a Mazda.

"I know people are going to say, 'That guy, is he not watching the news?'" he said. "I know what's going on. I still think Japan makes the best cars in the world. Period."

With the U.S. trying to claw out of a recession, the poll showed that Americans' taste for alternative-fuel cars is being tempered by economic realities. Such cars often cost more than similarly sized vehicles that run on gasoline.

By 61 percent to 37 percent, most said last month they would consider buying an alternative-fuel auto. That was a narrower margin than the 70 percent to 29 percent who said so in 2006.

Tellingly, people cited the environment and a desire to save money about equally last month when asked which would prevail in making their decision. Four years ago, with a strong economy, protecting the environment outweighed saving money, 47 percent to 34 percent.

"I'm concerned about the environment, but I don't want to kill myself, I don't want to go into bankruptcy," said Kathryn Mershon, 47, of Henderson, Nev.

The poll also found that:

--Fifty-six percent own vehicles made by U.S. automakers, about the same as in 2006.

--Eight in 10 live in households with autos, including about two-thirds who have two or more cars.

--Six in 10 autos were bought used.

--About four in 10 say their dream car would be a foreign brand, compared with three in 10 wishing for a domestic car.

Flentge, the Chevrolet owner, picked the German-made BMW as her dream car, saying, "I don't know, it just sounds prestigious."

The AP-GfK Poll was conducted March 3-8 by GfK Roper Public Affairs and Media. It involved interviews with 1,002 adults conducted by landline and cellular telephones. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 4.2 percentage points.

Associated Press Polling Director Trevor Tompson, AP News Survey Specialist Dennis Junius and AP writer Ken Thomas contributed to this report.

The Associated Press-GfK Poll: http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com

future2010camaroowner · 04-22-2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesman

Fully boxed frame is stronger and more heavy-dity than open C-channel. The F-Series, GMT-900's, and Ram all use fully boxed frames. Most are also hydroformed, which makes them even stronger in critical areas.

The Tundra uses an open C-channel frame, which is much weaker and prone to flexing. When driven on washboard surfaces, the Tundra's bed has been known to make contact with the cab due to the flex in the chassis. Its a pile of shit.

I thought the C-channel was supposed to flex. Don't models of F250s, 2500s and even semis use this same design? I've seen that video of the frame "strength," but I can't help wonder if there is a certain MPH that it will produce the opposite results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Don't forget worse fuel economy with a V6 than the other two with 8s.

I don't understand some of Chevy's comparisons like this one. If you watch the infomercials you can see Chevy advertise fuel economy. They compare a 315HP Silverado to a 390HP Ram which one gets one less mpg on the freeway according to EPA estimates. Why not compare to the 6.0 VortecMax? In my opinion, it doesn't really make sense. I'm not bashing GM but I question them.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-22-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by future2010camaroowner

If you watch the infomercials you can see Chevy advertise fuel economy. They compare a 315HP Silverado to a 390HP Ram which one gets one less mpg on the freeway according to EPA estimates. Why not compare to the 6.0 VortecMax? In my opinion, it doesn't really make sense. I'm not bashing GM but I question them.

It's marketing 101. The best you can make yourself look without lying...the better. Nowhere is there a rulebook to advertising that says you must have all things equal in order to claim "xxxxxxx".

I'm not attacking you or defending them, please don't misunderstand...but everyone who makes anything worth anything does this in advertising.

future2010camaroowner · 04-22-2010, 11:18 PM

Thanks. I get what you're trying to say and that's how car companies or any other company sell their products, through trickery. I do hope no one falls for this crap especially those Toyota commercials, the ones where "owners" proudly say my Toyota is reliable and how Toyota is taking care of their customers lalalala BS.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-22-2010, 11:24 PM

No, it's not trickery as much as it is shining the light on your product more than the other. I mean...it is true, right? If the truck buyer wants to save on gas and does moderate towing...this is exactly what he wants to hear!

Quote:

Originally Posted by future2010camaroowner

I do hope no one falls for this crap especially those Toyota commercials, the ones where "owners" proudly say my Toyota is reliable and how Toyota is taking care of their customers lalalala BS.

See...now, honestly? THOSE commercials are darn near the closest I've ever seen to a company outright lying to the audience. I flip the channel every time I see one. Unfortunately...people are falling for it.

wavrun2000 · 04-23-2010, 07:49 PM

Wow did this thread ever go south. Do any of you even know what this thread is about without going back to the first page to look it up? You all kind of sound childish in this and you almost go out of your way to disagree with the other person.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-23-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavrun2000

Wow did this thread ever go south. Do any of you even know what this thread is about without going back to the first page to look it up? You all kind of sound childish in this and you almost go out of your way to disagree with the other person.

This. Please stay on topic. There is a trend of increased purchases of domestic automobiles. Hurray!

wavrun2000 · 04-23-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

There*. Please stay on topic. This is a trend of increased purchases of domestic automobiles. Hurray!

There fixed to what I think you were going for. Or at least it is proper english.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-23-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavrun2000

There fixed to what I think you were going for. Or at least it is proper english.

mmm...no.

I meant to say "this" as a reinforcement of what you said. Like..."I agree with this", or "Look at this"...
And the "there" was proper.

wavrun2000 · 04-23-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

mmm...no.

I meant to say "this" as a reinforcement of what you said. Like..."I agree with this", or "Look at this"...
And the "there" was proper.

Ok I wasn't following the "this" thing and after reading it again I see that it is trend not thread as I originally read it. So face palm on my part.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-23-2010, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavrun2000

Ok I wasn't following the "this" thing and after reading it again I see that it is trend not thread as I originally read it. So face palm on my part.

No worries...I can type funky sometimes...

CPanther95 · 04-24-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

The tide is turning and it is crucial the American companies capitalize on this moment.
Continue to focus on quality and cars people want and they can hold on to this new found life.

In addition to quality, they need to start pricing them correctly and eliminate the ridiculously large rebates that continually pop up. All they do is give a short term bump in sales while devaluing every other car of that model on the road. The end result is resale values that plummet and residual values that make it seem that American cars can't hold their value as well as Japanese cars.

That's usually interpreted as a result of poorer quality - which affects sales to an even greater degree than the rebates can offset.

THE EVIL TW1N · 04-24-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPanther95

In addition to quality, they need to start pricing them correctly and eliminate the ridiculously large rebates that continually pop up. All they do is give a short term bump in sales while devaluing every other car of that model on the road. The end result is resale values that plummet and residual values that make it seem that American cars can't hold their value as well as Japanese cars.

That's usually interpreted as a result of poorer quality - which affects sales to an even greater degree than the rebates can offset.

+1 they need to stop "whore-ing cars out"

Wesman · 04-28-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by future2010camaroowner

I thought the C-channel was supposed to flex. Don't models of F250s, 2500s and even semis use this same design? I've seen that video of the frame "strength," but I can't help wonder if there is a certain MPH that it will produce the opposite results.

You don't want flex, period. Flex is caused by lack of rigidity, whether it be torsional or otherwise. C-channel frames, like the one used on the Tundra, are inherently weak by design and flex very badly when exposed to rough terrain or heavy loads.

The F-series all use fully boxed frames with hydroforming. Not sure what semi trucks use. The results will be silimar regardless of MPH, stronger frame designs have less flex, end of story.

04-22-2010, 04:41 AM	#29
KILLER74Z28 MOD SQUAD Drives: 2G1FT1EW9A9100666 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: West Michigan Posts: 5,768 View My Garage	WASHINGTON (AP) -- America's love affair with the automobile has a new spark -- a renewed affection for U.S.-made cars after a long dalliance with foreign automakers. Slightly more Americans now say the United States makes better-quality vehicles than Asia does, with 38 percent saying U.S. cars are best and 33 percent naming autos made by Asian countries, according to an Associated Press-GfK Poll. The survey suggests those numbers are largely fueled by a plunge in Toyota's reputation and an upsurge in Ford's. The poll was conducted in March, as Toyota was being roiled by nightmarish publicity over its recall of more than 8 million vehicles around the globe and allegations that it responded sluggishly to safety concerns. Though the U.S. advantage is modest, it marks a significant turnabout for American automakers battered by recession and relentless competition from foreign manufacturers. When the same question was asked in a December 2006 AP-AOL poll, 46 percent said Asian countries made superior cars, while just 29 percent preferred American vehicles, reflecting a perception of U.S. automotive inferiority that began taking hold about three decades ago. "Toyota's problems are not to be minimized here," David Williams, dean of the business administration school at Wayne State University in Detroit, Mich., said in explaining the attitude shift. In both AP polls, Japan -- home to brands like Toyota, Honda and Nissan -- was by far the dominant Asian nation volunteered as producing the best cars. European autos -- which include BMW, Mercedes Benz and Volkswagen -- were called top quality by 15 percent last month, about the same as the 17 percent who said so four years ago. Williams and others also cited a fresh look Americans are giving U.S. automakers, especially Ford and General Motors. Though GM and Chrysler went through bankruptcy last year and the federal government invested $80 billion to keep them afloat, GM has revamped its lineup with more fuel-efficient and crossover vehicles. Analysts say Ford revived its reputation by not accepting the taxpayer bailout and improving its vehicles' gasoline mileage. Highlighting the changing attitudes, 15 percent in the March poll said Toyota makes the best cars, down from 25 percent who said so in 2006. Moving in the opposite direction was Ford, cited as tops by just 9 percent in 2006 but by 18 percent last month. Eighteen percent said GM cars were best, little changed from 2006. Chrysler -- which continues to struggle -- remained mired at 3 percent. "They last," Charlotte Flentge, 60, of Chester, Ill., a Chevrolet Cavalier owner, said of American autos. "You get a good American car, you know you have a quality car you can be safe in and not be afraid to put your family in." Those likeliest to say Asian-made autos are superior included men, the better educated and residents of Western states. U.S. cars were a strong preference for those age 50 and up and rural residents. Overall, though, only 51 percent in last month's poll expressed strong confidence that cars sold in the U.S. are safe, with owners of domestic and foreign cars giving similar responses. The 2006 survey did not ask that question. "Toyota is leading the parade in reducing confidence in the safety of automobiles," said Gerald C. Meyers, a former auto executive with American Motors and now a University of Michigan business professor. "I suspect that's holding the number down a lot." Despite consumers' altered views, the poll showed that allegiance remains strong to many makes. Well over nine in 10 owners of Fords, GMs, Hondas and Toyotas expressed satisfaction with their cars, with the figure slightly lower for Chryslers. Among the brand loyalists is Vernon Harmon, 44, a police officer from Rock Hill, S.C., proud owner of a Toyota and a Mazda. "I know people are going to say, 'That guy, is he not watching the news?'" he said. "I know what's going on. I still think Japan makes the best cars in the world. Period." With the U.S. trying to claw out of a recession, the poll showed that Americans' taste for alternative-fuel cars is being tempered by economic realities. Such cars often cost more than similarly sized vehicles that run on gasoline. By 61 percent to 37 percent, most said last month they would consider buying an alternative-fuel auto. That was a narrower margin than the 70 percent to 29 percent who said so in 2006. Tellingly, people cited the environment and a desire to save money about equally last month when asked which would prevail in making their decision. Four years ago, with a strong economy, protecting the environment outweighed saving money, 47 percent to 34 percent. "I'm concerned about the environment, but I don't want to kill myself, I don't want to go into bankruptcy," said Kathryn Mershon, 47, of Henderson, Nev. The poll also found that: --Fifty-six percent own vehicles made by U.S. automakers, about the same as in 2006. --Eight in 10 live in households with autos, including about two-thirds who have two or more cars. --Six in 10 autos were bought used. --About four in 10 say their dream car would be a foreign brand, compared with three in 10 wishing for a domestic car. Flentge, the Chevrolet owner, picked the German-made BMW as her dream car, saying, "I don't know, it just sounds prestigious." The AP-GfK Poll was conducted March 3-8 by GfK Roper Public Affairs and Media. It involved interviews with 1,002 adults conducted by landline and cellular telephones. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 4.2 percentage points. Associated Press Polling Director Trevor Tompson, AP News Survey Specialist Dennis Junius and AP writer Ken Thomas contributed to this report. The Associated Press-GfK Poll: http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com __________________ Who cares about the Blue Oval crowd and their little Ponys? We're getting our Camaro back-and it'll be Supercharged!-MDAII Team LS3

04-23-2010, 07:49 PM	#34
wavrun2000 o come on Drives: 06 GTO Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Naples FL Posts: 437	Wow did this thread ever go south. Do any of you even know what this thread is about without going back to the first page to look it up? You all kind of sound childish in this and you almost go out of your way to disagree with the other person. __________________ 06 GTO with three pedals like it should be

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04-22-2010, 11:18 PM	#32
future2010camaroowner Still learning Drives: none yet Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: California Posts: 120	Thanks. I get what you're trying to say and that's how car companies or any other company sell their products, through trickery. I do hope no one falls for this crap especially those Toyota commercials, the ones where "owners" proudly say my Toyota is reliable and how Toyota is taking care of their customers lalalala BS.