Gustav

[nester7929]

A lot of people accuse the citizens of New Orleans of being foolish not to evacuate without realizing that many people simply don't have enough money or the means to flee. I know you guys are aware of the gas prices, plus the government rarely (if ever) provides sufficient means of transportation for the poor. N.O. has the lowest per capita income of any metropolis in the nation, so any time a mass evacuation is occurring, many people aren't able to join it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by CatiaJockey

Dragoneye, in your research did you study outside of New Orleans? Most don't realize the amount of destruction east of New Orleans.
We didn't, actually. We spoke briefly about Baton Rouge - but only because the population there nearly doubled in a week because of the New Orleans refugees.


Did your class consider the fact that New Orleans was based on being a port city?
Yes we did. In fact, that led us into another discussion about the area. New Orleans was built as a port city, and so - the mouth of the Mississippi was choked in one position. Dammed up so that it wouldn't move. What do I mean? Were it left to its own devices, the Mississippi River would wind and snake it's way across the whole Delta area. But that would be bad - the city would be washed away, and there'd be no route for ships to take. So we dammed the river...put it on a metaphorical "leash".

However, by damming it up for the purposes of being a port city; the swamplands and marshes began to dry up and SINK (imagine a sponge). In some places, the delta is sinking at a rate of over 3.5 ft/100 years. That's half an inch a YEAR! Now there are programs in place to rejuvenate the area and reverse this trend - but it's not working fast enough.

There was a group of people (half the class) that argued for staying. This was one of their points, among a few others...but I didn't, and still don't think it's strong enough to merit the investment of a sinking, doomed city.


If they were to move, where along the Mississippi river would be safe from floods and provide a convient port for shipping?
There is another river...a tributary of the Mississippi...but I forget it's name at the moment. I believe that if everyone in the Delta region moved inland** (out of the delta) and the river was "freed", then it would solve the sinking delta problem. I also put forward an idea to build a canal system for ships, or an idea to 'help' the naturally-flowing river. Instead of holding it still; guide it, and deepen it so that ships can go through.

**Remember, it wasn't the Hurricane itself that destroyed the city - it was the surge off of the lake that toppled the levees. So a city can (if built properly) withstand a Hurricane...but not in the setting New Orleans is in.

No matter what the disaster I think people are going to go back to their home. I've been through many many hurricanes and I still will not live any other place than the Gulf Coast.
And I can't blame you. Nobody wants to leave their home. There's heritage there, and a sense of belonging.

Every where you go there is the possibility for disaster of some sort, I'll take hurricanes over earthquakes and tornados any day.
But the New Orleans could have been delayed if the Levee's were kept in tact. But eventually - the sinking delta would have caught up, and down goes the city. New Orleans wasn't the result of a Hurricane alone - it was the result of poor engineering, poor maintenance, and terrible luck.

- But in the North East; there's hardly anything worse than a blinding snow-storm.

[chadrcr]

Sure, there are those who could not afford to leave...
This year, there are tons of busses, even with the SPCA for their pets....

When I was stationed in Norfolk, I used to 'ride out' the hurricanes... I would go sit on the beach on the Chesapeake Bay. The point: I did not really take the hurricanes seriously, 'cause on TV ............
After Katrina, I think a lot more people (outside FL) started taking it more seriously.

[MerF]

Originally Posted by nester7929

A lot of people accuse the citizens of New Orleans of being foolish not to evacuate without realizing that many people simply don't have enough money or the means to flee. I know you guys are aware of the gas prices, plus the government rarely (if ever) provides sufficient means of transportation for the poor. N.O. has the lowest per capita income of any metropolis in the nation, so any time a mass evacuation is occurring, many people aren't able to join it.

Again, it's not the fact that they didn't leave. It's the fact that when the madness really started, the population expected me to fix their problems out of my pocket...and please, don't thank me (because many didn't) just expect it faster next time.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

- But in the North East; there's hardly anything worse than a blinding snow-storm.

Or in the midwest. Last winter was particularly nasty. Imagine taking a RWD Envoy through that blizzard...

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by MerF

Again, it's not the fact that they didn't leave. It's the fact that when the madness really started, the population expected me to fix their problems out of my pocket...and please, don't thank me (because many didn't) just expect it faster next time.

You are seriously complaining about how much "you" spent when thousands of people potentially lost homes and loved ones?....Grow Up. It was a disaster, people lose stuff, but you act as if they don't have the right to be upset.

[MerF]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

You are seriously complaining about how much "you" spent when thousands of people potentially lost homes and loved ones....Grow Up.

No, I'm not. I've volunteered and happily donate to the Red Cross (and a few other select volunteer organizations), the point is not the money! It's the attitude that this country has that when something doesn't go right in your life, someone else has to clean it up. If you're gonna ride out a storm (again, I've ridden out a couple myself) then take the initiative that you're going to be out of power for a week or two. Buy water, canned foods, gas, fill up the tub with toilet water, batteries....there's lists all over.

No instead, the vast majority of the population of NO waited for someone else to rescue them, then proceeded to flip them the bird when it didn't happen to their liking.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by MerF

No, I'm not. I've volunteered and happily donate to the Red Cross (and a few other select volunteer organizations), the point is not the money! It's the attitude that this country has that when something doesn't go right in your life, someone else has to clean it up. If you're gonna ride out a storm (again, I've ridden out a couple myself) then take the initiative that you're going to be out of power for a week or two. Buy water, canned foods, gas, fill up the tub with toilet water, batteries....there's lists all over.

No instead, the vast majority of the population of NO waited for someone else to rescue them, then proceeded to flip them the bird when it didn't happen to their liking.

I will say I misunderstood what you meant and I apologize for that, but the rescue/rebuilding of New Orleans was one of the worst examples of FEMA, ever, and that's their specific function...to provide aid, etc.

[diddiyo]

Hope everybody is ok!

btw, fill up your car one last time before prices go back up again :/
Gustav apparently hit major oil platforms.

[GTAHVIT]

Katrina was a true disaster. I'm sure a lot of us know people that were devastated by it. But the FEMA failure is two sided. People took advantage of FEMA as much as FEMA blew it. For me the frustrating part is how we expect gov. to come in with a magic paint brush and wipe away a Cat 3 Hurricane that hit a city which resides below sea level. It's like we expect the restoration process to run without a hitch. And things to be back to normal in a matter of months.... Try Decades... Lets use the Tsunami that hit Asia a few years earlier. They are still no where near to getting back to where they were before the Tsunami. Yet N.O. is salvageable and largely back on track. Is it completely restored? No. Will it be yes. Would any other organization in the entire world be able to restore N.O. faster or better than our country can? No. These are huge problems that McGyver can't fix with a roll of duct tape, some alligator scales and chewing gum. Big problems cost big bucks and need big time and will have big shortfalls. Why do we have such unattainable standards? It's called a disaster for a reason.

Are we so arrogant to expect our leaders (all of them) to be absolutely perfect. We need to be a bit more realistic about what it takes to fix huge problems like this.

[CatiaJockey]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

- But in the North East; there's hardly anything worse than a blinding snow-storm.

Looks like your class had a realistic element in that project. I'm glad ya'll took it on and I hope your class had some constructive critism that enabled the people and goverments to be better prepared for future disasters. Now about those snow storms........lol

[CatiaJockey]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Katrina was a true disaster. I'm sure a lot of us know people that were devastated by it. But the FEMA failure is two sided. People took advantage of FEMA as much as FEMA blew it. For me the frustrating part is how we expect gov. to come in with a magic paint brush and wipe away a Cat 3 Hurricane that hit a city which resides below sea level. It's like we expect the restoration process to run without a hitch. And things to be back to normal in a matter of months.... Try Decades... Lets use the Tsunami that hit Asia a few years earlier. They are still no where near to getting back to where they were before the Tsunami. Yet N.O. is salvageable and largely back on track. Is it completely restored? No. Will it be yes. Would any other organization in the entire world be able to restore N.O. faster or better than our country can? No. These are huge problems that McGyver can't fix with a roll of duct tape, some alligator scales and chewing gum. Big problems cost big bucks and need big time and will have big shortfalls. Why do we have such unattainable standards? It's called a disaster for a reason.

Are we so arrogant to expect our leaders (all of them) to be absolutely perfect. We need to be a bit more realistic about what it takes to fix huge problems like this.

Well stated!
IMHO the goverment performed outstanding.

[Mr Twisty]

Consider Burma..... I am your brother, If you're in need I will come to help as quickly as possible. When I get there, if you don't give me a hug in appreciation, but instead ask me what took so #@%$ long, don't be surprised when I shake the dust off my shoes and go home. Nuff said.:flag2:

[CatiaJockey]

I was fortunate that Gustav went far enough west that damage was minimal. Lots of twigs a few large branches and 1 tree down. Not bad considering.[ATTACH][/ATTACH]